seeking info for DIY Intake manifold design for gsxr TB
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- Posts: 34
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seeking info for DIY Intake manifold design for gsxr TB
Hello Everyone. First off, I like to say what a great informational (and sometimes fun) forum this has been. I've been searching and reading as much information as I could find here (lots and lots of it), and finally decided to get started on my 68 karmann ghia resto/mod project during the cold winter months. I've bought and read most of the recommended books (type4 conversion manual, how to rebuild your vw aircooled engine,etc). I have a set of GSXR throttle bodies that I'll be using on my 2.0 type IV engine (from 914) to build my EFI system. Most people who have attempted this modification have used modified IDF/IDA intake manifolds, and I'm sure that they work great for them, but they look horrible (IMO). I would like to build a set of custom IDF\IDA style intake manifolds for the GSXR tb that's functional and aesthetically pleasing. The problem is, I can't seem to find any information or posts about anyone ever trying such a thing. Can any of you experts on here recommend or provide any information that could steer me in the right direction? PROs and\or CONs of such a project? Is it better to just modify a manifold? All opinions are welcomed. Thanks in advance.
- Dale M.
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- Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:09 am
Re: seeking info for DIY Intake manifold design for gsxr TB
You might try using GOOGLE search with "GSXR" and "Megasquirt" in search string..
I have seen it mentioned on some forum, someplace but do not remember where...
I tried the above search string and got a few hits....
Dale
I have seen it mentioned on some forum, someplace but do not remember where...
I tried the above search string and got a few hits....
Dale
"Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson
1970 "Kellison Sand Piper Roadster"
1970 "Kellison Sand Piper Roadster"
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Re: seeking info for DIY Intake manifold design for gsxr TB
Here is what I made up to use. I'm using Honda 900CBR tb's
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Re: seeking info for DIY Intake manifold design for gsxr TB
Thank you 904svo. Interesting setup. What type of material is the manifold made of? Did you modify an intake manifold or did you make from scratch? thanks again.
- grelland
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- Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 2:47 am
Re: seeking info for DIY Intake manifold design for gsxr TB
Hi, I am in the process of doing the same thing for my next engine, a 2109 oxyboxer for my Ghia.
I am planning on using a set of converted IDF manifolds, I will take a pic of the plan later today.
I am planning on using a set of converted IDF manifolds, I will take a pic of the plan later today.
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Re: seeking info for DIY Intake manifold design for gsxr TB
Thank you Grelland. Can't wait to see what you've come up with. I've been reading as much material as I can get my hands on, but the more I read, the more questions I have. I did my own research (as I've said earlier) and most of what I've been seeing are people using gsxr tb's in zetec builds (side draft manifolds). The big turnoff for me is the big piece of rubber tubing that's used to mate the TB to the modified manifold. I'm in the process of stripping the motor now, but I've also been planning what I want to do with it. I've played with several designs, on paper, that attaches the TB to the IDF manifold several different ways, while maintaining the original design of the original manifold. This way I can revert back to carbs should the need arise (or use a different TB). I'm normally a 'buy it' type of person, but seeing the works of art that folks come up with in here has given me inspiration.
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Re: seeking info for DIY Intake manifold design for gsxr TB
I used stock manifolds cut down with pieces of steel welded to them, this way I can use stock injectors. The
only problem I had was I had to use JB weld to build up the rim and machine them so I could use the rubber coupler to attached them.
only problem I had was I had to use JB weld to build up the rim and machine them so I could use the rubber coupler to attached them.
- Dale M.
- Posts: 1673
- Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:09 am
Re: seeking info for DIY Intake manifold design for gsxr TB
How about putting TB in lathe and cutting one or two grooves in base for "O" rings, and then making up a flange with short riser tubes that fits "IDF" style manifolds and TB's could be pushed in to short riser tube and "O" rings would seal "connection" and the TB could be locked with a set screw or some clamping arrangement....
Also a question, what are bore diameters of GSXR bodies and what is center to center dimensions of bores?
Dale
Also a question, what are bore diameters of GSXR bodies and what is center to center dimensions of bores?
Dale
"Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson
1970 "Kellison Sand Piper Roadster"
1970 "Kellison Sand Piper Roadster"
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Re: seeking info for DIY Intake manifold design for gsxr TB
I have 1998 GSXR TB, The specs claim the TB venturi sizes are 46mm. I can measure the center to center dimension of the bores, but I've read several articles that show they are quite easy to modify for various applications. I've thought of a similar application as you've explained, because the gsxr has a groove at the base that can be used with an O-ring or clamp, but I'm unsure of how airtight that would be. How airtight would a setup of this nature have to be around the mating mating area if I were to make a specia flange setup for this? Also, where do most of you purchase your raw materials for your machining projects (ie. aluminun plate, piping, etc)? Thanks.
- grelland
- Posts: 990
- Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 2:47 am
Re: seeking info for DIY Intake manifold design for gsxr TB
OK, here's the status on my project.
First of all I have what I believe to be a set of TB's off a Suzuki GSXR600. They are somewhat tapered, and the ID at the bottom (the smallest end) is in the range of just above 40mm.
I forgot to measure the center spacing, but here is a shot that compares to a IDF intake:
As can be seen, there is an issue there... I have two options; one is to split the TB, cut and extend the butterfly axle, or alternatively modify the intake, and keep the TBs spacing.
Then, I purchased a couple of feet of alu tubing from http://www.rossmachineracing.com/, they also carry fuel rail stock.
The alu tube measure some 44mm ID and 51 mm OD, which gives some 3.5mm wall thickness.
I plan to insert this into the intake, as the ID of the IDF flange is about the same as the OD of the tube:
Then seen from the other side, I can have the end of the tube welded to the intake, and grind off excess material on the outside:
(sorry for the poor pic, but you can see the end of the tube inside the runner)
Then I plan on placing the tube in a lathe, and reduce the ID of the tube, so that I can use the o-ring groove in the TB
This project is not finished as you can tell, and I still have to work out the runner length, in addition to learning to weld aluminum and figure out how to operate the lathe....
First of all I have what I believe to be a set of TB's off a Suzuki GSXR600. They are somewhat tapered, and the ID at the bottom (the smallest end) is in the range of just above 40mm.
I forgot to measure the center spacing, but here is a shot that compares to a IDF intake:
As can be seen, there is an issue there... I have two options; one is to split the TB, cut and extend the butterfly axle, or alternatively modify the intake, and keep the TBs spacing.
Then, I purchased a couple of feet of alu tubing from http://www.rossmachineracing.com/, they also carry fuel rail stock.
The alu tube measure some 44mm ID and 51 mm OD, which gives some 3.5mm wall thickness.
I plan to insert this into the intake, as the ID of the IDF flange is about the same as the OD of the tube:
Then seen from the other side, I can have the end of the tube welded to the intake, and grind off excess material on the outside:
(sorry for the poor pic, but you can see the end of the tube inside the runner)
Then I plan on placing the tube in a lathe, and reduce the ID of the tube, so that I can use the o-ring groove in the TB
This project is not finished as you can tell, and I still have to work out the runner length, in addition to learning to weld aluminum and figure out how to operate the lathe....
- grelland
- Posts: 990
- Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 2:47 am
Re: seeking info for DIY Intake manifold design for gsxr TB
reading through your original questions, I see you are looking for keeping the intakes unchanged, and I also see that my plan is not quite in line with that....
But I guess if I split the TBs and keep the cc spacing of the IDFs you could go the route described by Dale M.
My concern would be that there is probably a lot more work involved, and to me it seems better to modify the simplest (and cheapest) part; ie the intake as opposed to the TB.
You should also consider runner lenghts, I feel that going the route of modifying the intake, you could more easily tune the intake length to your liking. (or rather your engine's liking...)
But I guess if I split the TBs and keep the cc spacing of the IDFs you could go the route described by Dale M.
My concern would be that there is probably a lot more work involved, and to me it seems better to modify the simplest (and cheapest) part; ie the intake as opposed to the TB.
You should also consider runner lenghts, I feel that going the route of modifying the intake, you could more easily tune the intake length to your liking. (or rather your engine's liking...)
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- Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 3:58 am
Re: seeking info for DIY Intake manifold design for gsxr TB
Thank you for sharing Grelland. These are the things I enjoy about this forum. The willingness of others to exchange ideas and educate those seeking knowledge I must admit, I'm no expert with any of this...as a matter of fact.. I bought my ghia and 914 engine this summer. I spent the good part of the summer researching and collecting parts for my project. I plan on rebuilding the engine (attempting a stroker), using a megasquirt II for fuel, and a few other cool features I've read about. I spent a good bit of time reading about EFI, mostly here and a couple books I purchased. The manifold for the TB is the one aspect of the project that has left a bit of uncertainty in my mind, as I don't fully understand manifold tuning for the engine setup. That's why I posted the question here. I'm an extremely fast learner and very excited about starting this project. I can't wait to start sharing photos of the progress (and road blocks). My TB are slightly different than yours. I'll snap a few shots of them and post.
- Dale M.
- Posts: 1673
- Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:09 am
Re: seeking info for DIY Intake manifold design for gsxr TB
What intakes are these and why don't you use port injection by having the boss machined to take injector.... For butterflys almost any "butterfly" could be adapted...
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m68/ ... intake.jpg
Dale
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m68/ ... intake.jpg
Dale
"Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson
1970 "Kellison Sand Piper Roadster"
1970 "Kellison Sand Piper Roadster"
- grelland
- Posts: 990
- Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 2:47 am
Re: seeking info for DIY Intake manifold design for gsxr TB
I dont know who made these intakes, but I suspect they are from CB. They are for SuperFlow/CE heads.
I have considered using the bosses, but as long as the TBs already has injectors, I dont really need that...
I have considered using the bosses, but as long as the TBs already has injectors, I dont really need that...
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- Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:24 pm
Re: seeking info for DIY Intake manifold design for gsxr TB
If you use the injectors in the TB's you will have trouble with idling in cold weather, the gas puddles up and
makes it hard to tune the idle. Don't ask me how I know. The other trouble you might have is with the linkage
TB's are very hard to sync when they are split like that. The best way seems to be a pull/pull cable arrangement thats what I had to make up.
makes it hard to tune the idle. Don't ask me how I know. The other trouble you might have is with the linkage
TB's are very hard to sync when they are split like that. The best way seems to be a pull/pull cable arrangement thats what I had to make up.