Another Type IV MSII/EDIS install...

Fuel Supply & Ignition Systems

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reddream1966
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Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 2:01 pm

Post by reddream1966 » Thu May 31, 2007 6:32 am

Hi,
What is the size of the wheel, I saw several sizes on Ebay. I'm planning to do the same to my 2.0 78 westy.

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Rick_Eberle
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Post by Rick_Eberle » Thu May 31, 2007 6:33 pm

There is a drawing on the Boost Engineering site. http://home.earthlink.net/~beanbooger/b ... gineering/

144.3mm OD, and 102.8mm ID. It fits nicely through the hole in the fan housing. It's 9mm thick. I replaced the 2mm thick fan spacer with a plate large enough that I could drill holes and bolt the trigger wheel to it. I welded that plate to the fan hub, to keep it centered.

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Rick_Eberle
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Post by Rick_Eberle » Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:33 pm

I finally got it out on the road on Thursday afternoon. Wow! I love it! The throttle response feels good, and the cam has really woken this engine up.

Tuning wise, I found it a bit tricky to use Autotune in MegaTune... It kept putting big holes at odd places in the VE table. The VE Analyzer in MegaLogViewer works great, though, and is really easy to use.

I have a 28 day unregistered vehicle permit, which it turns out is only for driving the car to and from the point of repair, or to get registered, etc... A couple of Cops kindly poinded that out to me, while I was showing them the home-made fuel injection system. They were more interested in the MSII, than in giving me a ticket, though!

Now to get it registered!!!

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Rick_Eberle
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Post by Rick_Eberle » Sun Jun 10, 2007 5:49 am

This is the timing map I'm using at the moment. It's based on the stock distributor, with suggestions that I found in the forums from Jake for idle and above 5k rpm.

I've only run on the street for a couple of hours, but it seems to work for me so far. I'm topping out at 27 deg BTDC at WOT, until I have a good reason to do otherwise.

Image

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Kelley
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Location: Die Sonnekust, FL

Post by Kelley » Sun Jun 10, 2007 2:25 pm

Rick, do you have any pics of the intakes as you made them from start to finish?

The throttle body side looks to be the OG throttle body intakes from the GSXR1000. Is there an o-ring between the t/bodies and the intakes? Or, did you have a plan to make them from scratch? And where did the bottom of the intakes come from?

They look great, this just goes to show how many variations are available for fuel injection and engine management systems.

Motorcycle boneyards are full of wrecked, late-model sportbikes from novice riders riding beyond their means. Some would say overstocked. Which means prices are fairly inexpensive.

It's just a matter of finding what's close and available to you.

Keep us posted.

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Rick_Eberle
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Post by Rick_Eberle » Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:29 am

Starting from the Manifolds, I used a set of EMPI IDF manifolds. I got them from ISP West on EBay.
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The IDF spacing is a bit too wide. I can't remember off the top of my head what it is, maybe 5mm? Anyway, I cut each manifold in two, and then cut the top 20mm or so off, to where they matched the 42mm of the Throttle Bodies.
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I used an angle grinder with a "Flapper Wheel" on the outside of the manifolds to fit them into the mounting rings, which are 60mm o.d aluminium tube. (See pics on page 1)
The GSXR manifold mounts were the wrong shape for this job from what I could see. (And, I didn't have them.) I tried O-rings to mount the TB's, but they kept blowing off if I cracked the throttle when cold. The whole lot is now epoxied together. So far, so good.
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I ended up with two sets of TB, and used the cable linkage end of each, so no messing around with making new linkage arms on the TB's.
I used the 1.7 Air Filter bracket to make a bell crank style cable pull linkage.
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Rick_Eberle
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Post by Rick_Eberle » Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:19 am

I finally got my 914 registered today, and put about six hours worth of driving in.

This thing has soooo much more get up and go than when it was was a 1911 running D-Jet.

The TB's only feel oversized when I coast up to a red light in second, and the light goes green. Then there is a bit of a flat spot. but taking of from a standing start feels fine, and everywhere else does too. I may need to look at the angles of the bell cranks...

I left the laptop at home today, and let the "Automatic Mixture Control" in the MSII do its thing. It seems to work quite well - although it pulled the VE table down to zero in two places, so I need to adjust the "Vertex Tolerance" down a little. The places that are going to zero are both in the over-run.

I noticed that the VE table was topping out at around 80%, so I changed my ReqFuel from 14.0 to 11.2, and scaled the table by 125%. It should make no difference, but the VE table will make more sense (to me, anyway)

The engine seems to be happy, max oil temp was 80C, cruising oil pressure is 2.5 bar, and CHT didn't go above 165C, though I wasn't pushing too hard - I'm only tuning 1200-4000 RPM at the moment.

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Rick_Eberle
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Post by Rick_Eberle » Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:11 pm

Time for an update!

This car is now my daily driver, and has covered around 2700 miles.

My current ReqFuel is 10.8ms, the red line is at 6000 rpm (it feels like it's still pulling, but I'm chicken!). Here is the current VE and AFR tables. I think I'm pretty much there, except for the Accel Enrichments - they still need some tweaking.

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I have to say that I'm more than happy with MegaSquirt II & EDIS. I've had a couple of minor issues, but nothing serious. I bumped the USB cable while loading some adjustments, and got an error message. No biggie, except that the "Thermistor Tables" got corrupted and it stayed in warmup. They have to be reloaded seperately to the MSQ, something that I knew, but forgot!

At the moment I'm chasing an intermittent ground problem, that's dropping the LC-1 signal, but I think I know which connector it is.

I did have one dry solder joint, but it was easy to find with a little help from the MSEFI forums.

So far, so good!

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RonW
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Post by RonW » Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:59 pm

Excellent! Congrats. Cant wait to get mine to that point (once i move my MS /relay board into the cab). I'll probobly use these as a stating point for mine :D
912R + STi 2.0 Turbo JDM v8

DNHunt
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Post by DNHunt » Fri Sep 14, 2007 8:20 am

Hey Rick

Glad you are enjoying the car. I just have a couple of comments. Have you run datalogs through MSLV? I'd be real curious about how much vacuum you are pulling on over run. I consistentlly see vacuum of 16 kPa. Granted you have a different intake and a different cam but, I suspect you are missing some areas that should be tuned. 40 kPa for me is in part of my cruise range. MSLV has a really neat feature that will tune a VE table to the AFR table that I highly recommend.

I have found that using the Autotune feature as the first step in tuning is great but, it tends to give a very lumpy map and overall it seems too rich. MSLV smoothes things out and the overall map seems to lean out. The result is that AFRs get a lot more steady. It is also fast and both can be done without anyone having to help.

Also, if you have the redline at 6K you are not using the last rpm bin very much, if at all. Remember MS will use the VE entries in the last bin all the way to infinity (that goes for MAP too). I try to have my last bins a few hundred below rpms redline so I get some use out of them. The only downside to what I do is that the engine is just starting to go rich when it is shut down by the rev limiter.

Dave

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Rick_Eberle
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Post by Rick_Eberle » Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:05 pm

Hi Dave,

I found that AutoTune, and Automatic Mixture Control both gave me odd results... VE's of zero or peaks of 120% in strange places. I mostly use VE Analyzer in MegaLogViewer, and it's great. My commute is an hour, with 40 minutes of that being on the freeway, so I've been getting some good data.

I originally had my MAP bins covering a wider range, but I had a big jump going from 95kPa to 101kPa, so I changed them to give me more resolution at the high end. ( I also changed the maximum to 102kPa, in line with the maximum MAPs I'm seeing here at sea level.) You're quite right, though, the lower end should be less than 40kPa. The lowest I've seen in my logs is 24kPa, so I'll probably set the lowest bin to 25kPa, and the next one up to 40-45kPa.

I just today fixed the ground fault that was driving me nuts, so I should have a good, solid O2 signal again.

Back to the Garage!

DNHunt
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Post by DNHunt » Sat Sep 15, 2007 8:39 am

Those were my experiences too. I never ran automatic mixture control (control freak here) but Autotune was too heavy handed. VEAnalyzer is really nice.

That's kind of interesting having MAP readings above 100. I've had the same thing. I've figured it was a sampling error and I have ignored it. I know it is possible to get some extra filling but I never expected to see it. I wonder if we are seeing the air column in the intake colliding with the closed intake valve. In my case I have delayed the MAP sampling so I suppose it is possible.

I can't believe your car isn't popping like mad on decel.

I'm tuning xtau right now. I'm finding my car wants very little fuel cut on decel and about a tenth of the default accel settings. For me the toughest part has been tuning out a lean condition with throttle tip in after a shift. The default is a nice smooth curve while I think I need a bubble that increases fuel at about 3-3.5K. That seems to be where upshifts leave me in the rev band.

PM me a email addy and I'll send you my stuff if you want. Maybe you can find something you can use.

Dave

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Rick_Eberle
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Post by Rick_Eberle » Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:26 pm

DNHunt wrote: That's kind of interesting having MAP readings above 100.
It depends where you live, I'm at sea level, and when we get a high pressure zone, the ambient pressure can get a little above 102kPa.
DNHunt wrote: I can't believe your car isn't popping like mad on decel.
I'm getting a few small pops and "chuffs", but not as bad as the guy accross the street with the Harley...
DNHunt wrote: For me the toughest part has been tuning out a lean condition with throttle tip in after a shift. The default is a nice smooth curve while I think I need a bubble that increases fuel at about 3-3.5K. That seems to be where upshifts leave me in the rev band.
Yeah, it would be nice if that was a percentage setting, instead of fixed values. It's always going to be a compromise, the way it is.
PM me a email addy and I'll send you my stuff if you want. Maybe you can find something you can use.
Dave
PM on the way...

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Rick_Eberle
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Post by Rick_Eberle » Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:46 pm

UPDATE:

I just put it on the Dyno at 9k miles on the rebuild, and got 76.8 hp at the rear wheels - Video here.

Here's the timing map that worked the best:

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And the VE Table:

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falcor
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Re: Another Type IV MSII/EDIS install...

Post by falcor » Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:29 pm

Massive thread lift but does anyone know what modelyear the GSXR throttle bodies are from?

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