Small displacement engine swaps

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WickedWagens
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Small displacement engine swaps

Post by WickedWagens » Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:08 pm

Looking for ideas of what engines can go into a Ghia that are under 1523cc. I am looking at a racing class that has to have an engine swap. Any ideas?
1968 Ghia Land Speed Car
G/CFALT 106.643 MPH 8/2016
G/CGALT 113.131 MPH 9/2016
G/CBGALT 134.606 MPH 8/2017
G/CBFALT 146.715 MPH 8/2017
G/CBGC 158.242 MPH 9/2017

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sideshow
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Re: Small displacement engine swaps

Post by sideshow » Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:23 pm

Super bike motors from japan, don't know about the thrust of a clutch, but it would be hard to better their power to weight.
Yeah some may call it overkill, but you can't have too much overkill.

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WickedWagens
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Re: Small displacement engine swaps

Post by WickedWagens » Sat Jul 01, 2017 12:24 am

Yeah, the Hayabusa is on the list, but the conversion seems harder than some other automotive engines.
1968 Ghia Land Speed Car
G/CFALT 106.643 MPH 8/2016
G/CGALT 113.131 MPH 9/2016
G/CBGALT 134.606 MPH 8/2017
G/CBFALT 146.715 MPH 8/2017
G/CBGC 158.242 MPH 9/2017

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jamesbissland
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Re: Small displacement engine swaps

Post by jamesbissland » Sat Jul 01, 2017 6:56 am

Just be careful as some automotive classes will not allow the use of bike engines, so best check up on that!!

I can recommend the wee toyota NZ family of engines.. the 1NZ (1497cc) and 2NZ (1298cc). Not sure if you get them in the States though?

I ran a 2NZ in a 1300cc rally class (in a toyota starlet) and had excellent results. 109HP standard. We were pushing round 138hp 8900rpm race prepared

Also the Suzuki G13B from a 1990's Suzuki Swift GTi is a very good engine also, loosely based on a bike engine, and loves to rev.


I remember reading a Hot VW's magazine from the 90's and there was a Ghia with a Turbo 1300cc Rabbit engine in it that was pushing out a ridiculous hp for the Salt Flats.

Here in New Zealand the Impreza base model has an EJ15 / 1500cc with a TON of aftermarket support parts for the Subaru EJ's out there... not to mention a heap of info for builds on NASIOC forum. Possibly an option if you want to keep flat 4?

Best of luck!
jb

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WickedWagens
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Re: Small displacement engine swaps

Post by WickedWagens » Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:23 pm

The only rules are the displacement limits. I will look into those other engines you mentioned above and see what might be available here in the states. Thank you.
1968 Ghia Land Speed Car
G/CFALT 106.643 MPH 8/2016
G/CGALT 113.131 MPH 9/2016
G/CBGALT 134.606 MPH 8/2017
G/CBFALT 146.715 MPH 8/2017
G/CBGC 158.242 MPH 9/2017

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petew
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Re: Small displacement engine swaps

Post by petew » Sun Jul 02, 2017 5:20 am

jamesbissland wrote:
Sat Jul 01, 2017 6:56 am
Here in New Zealand the Impreza base model has an EJ15 / 1500cc with a TON of aftermarket support parts for the Subaru EJ's out there... not to mention a heap of info for builds on NASIOC forum. Possibly an option if you want to keep flat 4?
Actually I thought of the EJ motors, but the EJ15 is pretty much the same size as the EJ20/22. So not that light/powerful for what it is. The other issue is they suffer oil starvation in the centre bearing (IIRC) at lots of revs. The Suzuki G13B motor is pretty great, but old tech now.

Sport bike motors are pretty amazing as a few people have noted. Alongside the hayabusa, BMW make some pretty legendary K series motors.

You're other alternative is to build a destroked Toyota 4AGE 20 valve or Honda B16. Both motors are very close to the capacity and could be sorted with an offset ground crank. Again, lots and lots of aftermarket parts and know how. Both are also easily revved past 9k with the right bits and the heads flow HEAPs from factory. The 20 valve 1.8 VW motor is also worth looking at.

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sideshow
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Re: Small displacement engine swaps

Post by sideshow » Sun Jul 02, 2017 8:33 am

Rules say anything about a 1.7 type-4 destroked to 58mm? No idea about the cost but that could be top fuel/super bike type of power band and as far as engine swaps it would be nearly the simplest.
Yeah some may call it overkill, but you can't have too much overkill.

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petew
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Re: Small displacement engine swaps

Post by petew » Sun Jul 02, 2017 8:41 am

sideshow wrote:
Sun Jul 02, 2017 8:33 am
Rules say anything about a 1.7 type-4 destroked to 58mm? No idea about the cost but that could be top fuel/super bike type of power band and as far as engine swaps it would be nearly the simplest.
Hayabusa heads allow 180hp from the factory. 20 valve Toyota heads would be similar. Trying to get type 4 heads/valvetrain to that level of flow and hold the bottom end together at 10,000rpm would be prohibitively expensive. Not saying it couldn't be done, but given he's allowed to use any motor it doesn't make sense.

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sideshow
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Re: Small displacement engine swaps

Post by sideshow » Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:38 am

Factor in conversion cost verses time...you know the jack stand argument
Yeah some may call it overkill, but you can't have too much overkill.

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WickedWagens
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Re: Small displacement engine swaps

Post by WickedWagens » Sun Jul 02, 2017 12:04 pm

sideshow wrote:
Sun Jul 02, 2017 8:33 am
Rules say anything about a 1.7 type-4 destroked to 58mm? No idea about the cost but that could be top fuel/super bike type of power band and as far as engine swaps it would be nearly the simplest.
No, its actually any engine family that did not originally come in the car. The current record is held by a Ghia with a Porsche 356 engine. I didn't think about the type 4, I was thinking briefly about a WBX. The motorcycle engines are very impressive for power from the factory. It is just a matter of mating it to my swing axle gearbox. The Suzuki looks like a nice choice too, same issues with the conversion.

There is a guy running a destroked Honda k20 in a CRX. That might be a little cost prohibitive though.

Thank you for all of the good ideas and conversation so far.
1968 Ghia Land Speed Car
G/CFALT 106.643 MPH 8/2016
G/CGALT 113.131 MPH 9/2016
G/CBGALT 134.606 MPH 8/2017
G/CBFALT 146.715 MPH 8/2017
G/CBGC 158.242 MPH 9/2017

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jamesbissland
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Re: Small displacement engine swaps

Post by jamesbissland » Mon Jul 03, 2017 5:57 am

petew wrote:
Sun Jul 02, 2017 5:20 am
You're other alternative is to build a destroked Toyota 4AGE 20 valve or Honda B16. Both motors are very close to the capacity and could be sorted with an offset ground crank. Again, lots and lots of aftermarket parts and know how. Both are also easily revved past 9k with the right bits and the heads flow HEAPs from factory. The 20 valve 1.8 VW motor is also worth looking at.
I tried the whole 1300 3AGE.. A 4AGE head on a 3A (1300cc) Block. Wasn't very successful for the effort/dyno tuning involved.

I guess it comes down to how much you want to invest in it... Do you want to try re-invent the wheel which will be very expensive, and your car will mostly sit in the garage; or do you want to rock down to a local pick-a-part, grab a cheap engine, have fun on the track, maybe blow it up, then go grab another one..

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andy198712
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Re: Small displacement engine swaps

Post by andy198712 » Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:30 pm

what about a rotary engine? RX8 engines come in at 1.4 don't they?

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sideshow
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Re: Small displacement engine swaps

Post by sideshow » Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:03 pm

Help me out...you are the only one that knows what race you are running (care to tell us?)
You are the only one that knows how you feel about radiators (care to tell us?)
You are the only one that knows how you feel about hacking up your car (care to tell us?)
You are the only one that knows how much you want to spend/time (care to tell us?)

It will be hard to beat a 616 in good shape, he has all ready bested you on appearance.
Yeah some may call it overkill, but you can't have too much overkill.

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panel
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Re: Small displacement engine swaps

Post by panel » Sat Jul 08, 2017 5:49 pm

This guy is on the STF with his crazy bus and has done this other crazy conversion....His name is Jørn Tangen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVXbHGo0Jos

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WickedWagens
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Re: Small displacement engine swaps

Post by WickedWagens » Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:58 pm

Help me out...you are the only one that knows what race you are running (care to tell us?)
I run land speed races at the Bonneville Salt Flats.

You are the only one that knows how you feel about radiators (care to tell us?)
I would probably run a large water tank as weight is not a problem and I only run 2-3 miles at a time.

You are the only one that knows how you feel about hacking up your car (care to tell us?) don't want to hack up the main body too much, but modification to the deck lid is no problem.

You are the only one that knows how much you want to spend/time (care to tell us?) obviously I'm looking to spend the least amount per record. Entry fees are high and it is extra to change classes. But speed cost money so, if I want to go after this record I will have to spend what it takes to get it.

It will be hard to beat a 616 in good shape, he has all ready bested you on appearance.
I don't know what you mean here?
1968 Ghia Land Speed Car
G/CFALT 106.643 MPH 8/2016
G/CGALT 113.131 MPH 9/2016
G/CBGALT 134.606 MPH 8/2017
G/CBFALT 146.715 MPH 8/2017
G/CBGC 158.242 MPH 9/2017

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