56' Vdub-aru...VW,Mendeola,Subaru,Porsche,BMW..the works!

[ambrynmc]

See, now you're talking!! I was hoping this guy would stop by!

24 x 24 seems sorta big, I was looking at a 26 x 16 2 row radiator and that will barely fit a late model bug. Maybe the 2 or 3 row units can be significantly smaller?

By the way, did you use two radiators on the Meyers (one on each side, I see the right one)? And are they thick since they are small?

[ambrynmc]

Ok, I've got another one, If you put the heater bypass valve (Ford Ranger valve) close to the engine, won't that allow the thermostat to operate correctly?

This guy was running without a thermostat and had to block off his radiators due to too much cooling (coolant only 125 F). He says he is going to put a thermostat back in. Of course, this car has 3 radiators.



(supercool build of a WRX EJ255 engine in a Porsche Boxster in case anyone is interested, http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... ?t=2047734)


Doug, have you decided on a radiator? I still think that 3 row Civic one would be a good choice at +/-$240.

[surfbeetle]

My understanding is that the reason that you have to allow pass through on the heater circuit is to allow for the heated coolant to cause the thermostat to open. If the heater circuit is blocked off, then no hot coolant hits the thermostat which stays closed and the engine overheats. If you don't run the thermostat, then it takes forever to get up to temperature, if at all depending on your radiator configuration.

My comments are based on what I have read here, on Aussieveedubbers and on NASIOC. What actually takes place in practice when you have your car running could be a different story. Whatever way you set it up, it's important to closely monitor your temps to make sure your setup isn't going to overheat the engine. I plan to run the thermostat and have a mojave style pass through heater that is going under the backseat. I'm going to see what happens and then add an oil cooler tapped into the oil filter base if needed.

[ambrynmc]

My understanding is that the reason that you have to allow pass through on the heater circuit is to allow for the heated coolant to cause the thermostat to open. If the heater circuit is blocked off, then no hot coolant hits the thermostat which stays closed and the engine overheats. If you don't run the thermostat, then it takes forever to get up to temperature, if at all depending on your radiator configuration.

I agree totally, that is exactly what I've heard too, I think what Coolrydes is talking about is that if your coolant loop or heater core is too far away from the thermostat, the coolant cools too much in route and then makes the thermostat repeatedly open and close and will cause the engine to overheat.

The Ranger bypass valve is a 4-port valve that has an inlet port, an outlet port, and 2 ports attached to the heater core. So just sitting there, the valve is normally flowing in a short loop (in one port and back out to the engine). When the valve is actuated, it opens the other 2 ports so that it flows into the valve, loops through the heater core and then goes back to the engine. Thoughout this process, coolant is always flowing: either in the short loop or the long loop through the heater core.

Wow, that was sorta hard to explain without a picture, here is a good diagram http://rjes.com/coolant_diagram.pdf

[56SemaRag]

Not yet Ambryn, but I am going to order the OBX today from your link. Many thanks!

The heater bypass is independent of the thermostat, but the thermostats do have a small pinhole in them to allow a trickle of flow through them. I will keep the thermostat, to have the stock warm up it just may cycle a bit more. The aluminum tubing will definitely assist in supplemental cooling I guess it's why I am taking my time on the radiator selection. Narrowed it down to a few though.

I have read the same Surf...cooling is especially important if running the EJ22T (closed) block.

[coolrydes]

You guys are very right. I missed the fact that you are putting a heater in your car. Two other ways to combat the thermostat issue are, 1) run a small bypass hose that feeds back into system at the thermostat, thus keeping hot coolant on the thermostat at all times (like what the heater system is doing). 2nd) way is to run a restrictor plate. This one can be tricky, as it will take some R&D to get it just right.

As for the question of radiator size we were using on our street Manxters like the one in the picture above. We used two 12x12x2 dual core +tanks radiators in series, with high volume (I think 1375 cfm) fans. The reason for the strong fans is the radiators were not in dirrect air flow and at 80mph there was an areodynamics issue where the side pods made a negitive presure at the openings. Therefore we had to pull air thru them to cool the subi 6 cylinder engine. By the way the 6 cylinders cooling needs are the same as a 4 cylinder turbo.... Just an fyi...

[surfbeetle]

Kevin,
I love that yellow color. Very nice!

[560]

Great info here guys, keep posting what you are finding out.

Mike

[56SemaRag]

Kevin (coolrydes) from Mendeola has been working with me to on the kafer bar setup. Since my shock mounts are original to my '56 I don't have the "twist" incorporated at the top as the later model pans do. These plates arrived today and should make the shock to shock tower clearancing and horizontal kafer bar installation much easier. Only need a few more pieces to mock up The Stiffy. Man is The Stiffy made well, has to be seen to be appreciated.

Thanks Kevin!

[56SemaRag]

Installed the horizontal Kafer bar and clearanced the shock towers to fit the coil overs.

[RottenRawb]

Damn, thats a sexy rear end you got there!!!

[56SemaRag]

Damn, thats a sexy rear end you got there!!!

Haha, hopefully I can finish it soon!

[ambrynmc]

VERY nice!!! What are you doing for rear brakes? (944 turbo?, what year and where did you source your calipers? And do they have parking brake?)

Ok, one more...what turbo are you going to use? (I'm going to keep you working!)

[56SemaRag]

They are 944T i just don't have them mocked up. I purchased all my calipers for $200. The fronts a have 40mm/36mm pistons (86+) and the rears have 28mm/30mm pistons(86+). I am just waiting to send them to powder coating once I settle on a color that will match or contrast my exterior color well (which I finally narrowed down to a few colors).

For the front and rear setup when dealing with Porsche conversions, I don't think you can get any easier or sharper than Lanner Khan at VDub Engineering. He does great work.

The rear backing plates are from the pre-86 (steel arm) 944's that I got from the junkyards. The rear rotor is a 1986 944T (299mm x 24mm x 71mm) purchased from R1 concepts. To use the existing VW emergency brake set up, I went with Lanners "swan" clips and 100mm tubes. It made the hook up easy when I tested it out and eliminates trying to swedge two types of cables together. The rears will also needed slightly longer bolts and 3mm shims to center the caliper on the rotor. Lanner provided them as well. Interestingly the parking brake pads are actually shoes that reside within the rear rotor bell. On a side note, there are certain BMW's that share the same size emergency brake shoe but don't carry the Porsche price tag

The front spindles are the ones that came from Mendeola, but have been reworked by Lanner as well. He provided and machined the hubs and spindles to work with VW seals and bearings. Rotors are 86'-89' 944T (298mm x 28mm) from R1 Concepts. Again, top work by Lanner!

I haven't decided on a turbo yet because I haven't narrowed down the head type yet. I have a set of EJ22T heads that I may use, but I would like to see if a set of RS SOHC heads will fit without chopping. The extended Subaflanges with the upcoming...soon to be released Subamount may put me in there, but we shall see. The RS's flow a lot better than the early stuff. I will finalize my head, cam and turbo choice once my trans is done and the short block is ready.

All good questions, keep em coming! You never know what I may overlook

[ttriebler]

Interesting thoughts and comments about cylinder heads. I wonder if it is easier/better from an overall packaging perspective to use SOHC heads. They all have 16 valves but enable fitment into a bug to be easier.

With turbos, extracting every last bit of performance out of a set of heads is not quite so important, so I would probably be heading towards a SOHC setup. I have been in a few EJ20T bugs now and I can tell you they have ample performance at even half throttle. Extracting that last 0.5% is not critical.