1958 Ragtop Bug, with turbo EJ22 Subaru power.

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roachghia70
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1958 Ragtop Bug, with turbo EJ22 Subaru power.

Post by roachghia70 » Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:47 am

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I have a build thread going for my car on thesamba. It's a 58ragtop bug body on a 1970 IRS pan with lots of little modifications done to it. 924S rear torsion bars, Ghia disk brakes front and rear, 2" widened fiberglass fenders, gutted interior, Porsche wheels, etc. People seemed pretty into it when I was building an autocross Bug with a type1 or a type4 engine. But as soon as I started posting pictures of my Subaru conversion, I stopped getting as many replies to my posts. :lol: Here's a link to that thread (the Subaru stuff starts happening on page 6):

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewto ... sc&start=0

I just thought I'd repost some of the previous pictures here, and then start documenting the swap here as I make progress, so that I can get suggestions, comments, insults, etc from the guys who are into this sort of thing. 55Superbeetle is helping me a ton with the project, which is really the main reason that I decided to even do this in the first place. I always dreamed of it, but I didn't have the balls to start cutting and welding until I saw his work on my dad's 914, Capsoval's K20 turbo bug, and various other cars he's worked on.

So here is what I have done. I felt guilty cutting up the inside of my H apron, and my car is on a 1970 IRS pan, so I decided to modify the pan instead of the body. I moved the tranny and engine forward an inch by flipping the cradle mount backwards, cutting off the nose cone mount, and adding a mid-mount in its place. It worked, but in the process I discovered that my car has been hit before and the apron is fairly mangled. Next time, I would have just left it in the stock location and trimmed the apron. But on the plus side, this car is now ready for a quad cam EJ25!


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(don't worry, the oil pan has already been shortened, that's just an old pic.)



As for the radiator, I am trying to keep the cutting to a minimum without sacrificing too much cooling. I decided to cut out only the bottom part of the spare tire well, and if it is not enough, then I will go back and trim out some more. I will leave the little steering box access doors off, but if push comes to shove I will cut that whole panel out as well.

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Radiator in place:
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Shroud mocked up:
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Scoop and lower radiator mount nearly done:
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Megasquirt computer will be mounted to a kick panel under the rear seat. Here's a mockup I made:
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The final version will be cut from aluminum, and have a bracket where it attaches to the floor pan, to keep it from slipping and falling over.


So that's where the project sits today. Right now I am trying to work out how I am going to do the coolant lines, and then figure out where to mount the throttle body. Most likely, I will run rubber lines under the car, but the idea of stainless lines running through the shift tunnel sounds like it could keep things really neat and tidy. I also need to work out the header, since the WRX header that I have right now hangs down a bit too far for my liking.
Last edited by roachghia70 on Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

Mooosman
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Re: Autocross 58 ragtop, soon with EJ22 Subaru power.

Post by Mooosman » Mon Jan 17, 2011 11:30 am

Sweet. You're going to like the EJ22; good power, and very smooth. Are you going to use the regular Subaru manifold and throttle body, or something else?

For the cooling lines, I went to a local muffler shop and had 1.5" aluminized exhaust pipe bent up, running under each heater channel, and hung with rubber muffler hangers. Simple, cheap, and more durable than rubber. I only have short rubber pieces as connectors.

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Nick

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roachghia70
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Re: Autocross 58 ragtop, soon with EJ22 Subaru power.

Post by roachghia70 » Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:53 pm

Thanks Nick!

I am planning on using the stock Subaru intake manifold, but with the throttle body flange cut off and repositioned. I don't have enough room to put an elbow off the back, because the engine is moved forward. But that gives me an opportunity to do something a little creative, and maybe end up with a clean looking engine compartment. I have a couple of ideas of how to simplify and hide some of the components, without sacrificing the functionality.

I like how you kept the coolant tubes towards the outsides of the floor pan, so that they're less likely to get dragged or damaged. I had planned to run mine down the center, but your way seems like a pretty smart way to do it. The metal lines seem like a good idea too, because they'll help cool the water. Good work, man!

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Buggin_74
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Re: Autocross 58 ragtop, soon with EJ22 Subaru power.

Post by Buggin_74 » Tue Jan 18, 2011 1:41 am

Hey Roach, good to see you posting your work somewhere where it will be appreciated.
We all know what the samba purists are like
Theres a restored 13 windows split around here with a twin turbo EJ20 that would give them all cardiac arrest.

The SOHC are alot narrower than the DOHC engines.
Even with the tranny moved forward you still have to lose most of the bumper mounts.
that was the main thing stopping me going DOHC.

Several of my mates are running them and if any of them are hit up the arse by the teenager behind txting while driving it's gonna make a mess.

x2 for the metal cooling lines.
Helps heaps with cooling, my rad is a tiny little 1.5L alfa rad thats only 10" high.
My pipes are stainless and run similar to mooosmans but I put them up in the channel with the body bolts cos my car is fairly low

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1974 Germanlook 1303 Suba-Beetle
Subaru EJ25 Boost R 17", 4 Wheel discs, Topline suspension and A/C

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GS guy
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Re: Autocross 58 ragtop, soon with EJ22 Subaru power.

Post by GS guy » Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:26 pm

Good looking car Roach! I'm not generally a fan of the "flat" paint jobs - but your Bug looks great in that combo. The rims too, can't decide which I like better? They both look gooood!

The only thing it'll be needing is a set of ITB's for when you pop the hood! 8)

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GS guy
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Re: Autocross 58 ragtop, soon with EJ22 Subaru power.

Post by GS guy » Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:20 pm

Just followed up reading your Samba thread. Again, nice work on the Bug.
Couple of considerations: you might think about using the Outfront outlet pipes and making your own exhaust? They tuck up nice and tight to the heads and can be positioned forwards or backwards. Not as nice as an equal length header, but much easier to fab and exhaust to!
Doesn't look like much room left for the sway bar up front?
You mentioned your front valence being "flattened" before cutting it away for the radiator inlet - what's going to happen to that nice scoop under there? :shock: I like the air inlet design though, looks like it should work well. You might have to open up some of that center section (behind the radiator) in the front end for additional cooling air "exit" room?
Keep up the good work!
Jeff

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Re: Autocross 58 ragtop, soon with EJ22 Subaru power.

Post by Master slacker » Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:05 am

Nice build so far. What car did you get the engine from?

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roachghia70
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Re: Autocross 58 ragtop, soon with EJ22 Subaru power.

Post by roachghia70 » Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:47 pm

Buggin_74 wrote: We all know what the samba purists are like
HA! I love the purists over there, for a couple of reasons. First off, they really are doing a great thing by keeping records of how these cars were when they were stock, and making it possible for other people to restore their cars correctly. And if you've ever had some obscure little question about something you're doing to your car you can't deny that there is some value in that! Secondly, they're funny as hell when they get all bent out of shape! :lol:
Buggin_74 wrote: The SOHC are alot narrower than the DOHC engines.
Even with the tranny moved forward you still have to lose most of the bumper mounts.
that was the main thing stopping me going DOHC.
That's very true. I was completely against cutting the little shelves on the side of my engine compartment at first, but after I got going on this swap I noticed that in one of the rear-end accidents in my car's past, half the spot welds on those shelves have been ripped out already. So at this point, I woulnd't be too terribly opposed to taking the shelves off entirely. And I don't plan to run bumpers on my car anyway, so in an accident I am in bad shape either way!
Buggin_74 wrote:
x2 for the metal cooling lines.
Helps heaps with cooling, my rad is a tiny little 1.5L alfa rad thats only 10" high.
My pipes are stainless and run similar to mooosmans but I put them up in the channel with the body bolts cos my car is fairly low

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That's a really nice setup, man! I love all the ground clearance. Cool car, man.

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roachghia70
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Re: Autocross 58 ragtop, soon with EJ22 Subaru power.

Post by roachghia70 » Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:39 pm

GS guy wrote:Good looking car Roach! I'm not generally a fan of the "flat" paint jobs - but your Bug looks great in that combo. The rims too, can't decide which I like better? They both look gooood!

The only thing it'll be needing is a set of ITB's for when you pop the hood! 8)
Thanks man! Right now, I plan on putting slicks on the mesh wheels for autocrossing, and then using the turbo twists for the street. Since they're curbed up and need refinishing, I am going to try and paint them a darker silver. I think it'll mute them down a bit so that they go with the flat black paint a little better.

ITBs on a high compression N/A engine with a set of cams would be pretty sick! Since I don't want to make more than 200hp, that could be the way I go. But I think a turbo would be cheaper and easier. And honestly, I wouldn't be thrilled about putting throttle linkage back into the engine compartment. After about a decade of daily driving with dual carbs, that single throttle body is looking pretty nice! haha
GS guy wrote:Just followed up reading your Samba thread. Again, nice work on the Bug.
Couple of considerations: you might think about using the Outfront outlet pipes and making your own exhaust? They tuck up nice and tight to the heads and can be positioned forwards or backwards. Not as nice as an equal length header, but much easier to fab and exhaust to!
Doesn't look like much room left for the sway bar up front?
You mentioned your front valence being "flattened" before cutting it away for the radiator inlet - what's going to happen to that nice scoop under there? :shock: I like the air inlet design though, looks like it should work well. You might have to open up some of that center section (behind the radiator) in the front end for additional cooling air "exit" room?
Keep up the good work!
Jeff
Thanks for the note about the Outfront pipes. Do you happen to know how far they hang down, or if they're shorter than a stock WRX header? I do plan on making my own exhaust from the header back, but if those pipes will give me more clearance I'll gladly spend the cash for them.

Yeah, I am not sure how the front sway bar will work out. I will try to mount it upside down on the bottom trailing arms, or on the top trailing arms, but if neither of those work, I will have to figure out a way to install a nascar-style splined sway bar. But for the sake of cost, I hope I won't have to do that.

As for the flattened apron, that was from back when the car was super low. For the sake of decent handling, I am not going to have the car as low as my brother used to have it. So I doubt it will get banged up too bad. It's definitely not going to be as low as it is sitting right now during mockup. And I agree with you that the cutting behind the radiator might not be enough. I didn't want to hack out more than I had to, so I am going to try it like this, and if I have cooling problems I will cut out some more material up towards the top of the radiator.

Thanks for the kind words and the lead on those Outfront pipes. We used their Stinger EMS on my dad's 914 project so I am familiar with the company, but I never did see their exhaust pipes.

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roachghia70
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Re: Autocross 58 ragtop, soon with EJ22 Subaru power.

Post by roachghia70 » Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:40 pm

Master slacker wrote:Nice build so far. What car did you get the engine from?
Hi Slacker, Thanks! I just replied in your other thread, but I think it came out of a 1994(ish) Legacy wagon.

Mooosman
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Re: Autocross 58 ragtop, soon with EJ22 Subaru power.

Post by Mooosman » Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:08 am

roachghia70 wrote: Thanks for the note about the Outfront pipes. Do you happen to know how far they hang down, or if they're shorter than a stock WRX header? I do plan on making my own exhaust from the header back, but if those pipes will give me more clearance I'll gladly spend the cash for them.

Here's a link to their 6 cylinder pipes, but you get the idea. Their bare stubs end after the two pipes merge (there is no real collector on the 4 cylinder pipes, just the 2 primary pipes merged into one. You could point them towards the rear of the car, and merge them in the center. You could even put a collector flange on there and run an off the shelf VW exhaust...

http://www.outfrontmotorsports.com/primary_tubes.htm

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GS guy
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Re: Autocross 58 ragtop, soon with EJ22 Subaru power.

Post by GS guy » Thu Jan 20, 2011 4:36 pm

My Outfront header pipes hang down 3.5" from the mounting flange (face) to the bottom of the tubing. They're pretty short, which was a must for my installation. They're nice and thick gauge tubing too, I believe 14 gauge. Definitely a bargain for what Outfront charges for them.

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Jeff
Last edited by GS guy on Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

mrblyoung
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Re: Autocross 58 ragtop, soon with EJ22 Subaru power.

Post by mrblyoung » Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:13 pm

Right on Thomas. Im glad to see you found a nice Suby for this bad boy. Gonna be rad. So what does this mean for the 2270 rebuild?

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Humble
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Re: Autocross 58 ragtop, soon with EJ22 Subaru power.

Post by Humble » Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:53 pm

Very nice! I can't wait to see this finished, we'll have to make a trip over hwy 9 again :D I'm going to run my turbo setup until it blows or at least until an over winter swap can be done. Are you going to have the swap done by dual at de anza in may?

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roachghia70
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Re: Autocross 58 ragtop, soon with EJ22 Subaru power.

Post by roachghia70 » Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:02 pm

mrblyoung wrote:Right on Thomas. Im glad to see you found a nice Suby for this bad boy. Gonna be rad. So what does this mean for the 2270 rebuild?
I sold the 2270, but it's going into Philippe's black 73 standard, here in town.
Humble wrote:Very nice! I can't wait to see this finished, we'll have to make a trip over hwy 9 again :D I'm going to run my turbo setup until it blows or at least until an over winter swap can be done. Are you going to have the swap done by dual at de anza in may?
I am not sure when I will have it done. I was hoping to already be driving it, but things keep getting into the way of my build. We just bought a 58 Chevy Biscayne for my wife, and it's not quite to daily driver condition, so I need to focus on that one before I can resume my build. I've never run a car at Deanza, so I would love to have it there. I just don't know, though. Even if i have it running, i won't have all the suspension worked out, or even tires for it, so I probably won't be there.

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