Carb'd (Now EFI) EJ22 Into '69 Bug

[Mooosman]

Nice build... Didn't see an answer to your question about park/neutral etc. My research has shown that, with no speed sensor, if your air flow meter is from an auto you must run in auto - PARK. If your Air flow sensor is from a manual, you must run manual - neutral. I currently am running manual - neutral and have no speed sensor errors in 2000+ miles.

Just a side note, too. If you are having trouble with idle, it's likely a sticky IAC. If you do adjust the idle, use the air bleed screw and not the throttle position screw. I used seafoam and regained my idle without touching the IAC, but I believe it to be sticky still.

Nice Build, hope this helps.

This is what my research showed as well. Auto AFM = ground the Park wire. Manual AFM = ground the Neutral wire. Good to know that you haven't had any issues running without a VSS. I think it's just the OBD II stuff that freaks out without the VSS signal; from my research, the OBD I stuff just throws a couple codes, without affecting drivability.

Luckily, the idle is rock steady and extremely smooth. The damn thing idles down to about 5-600 rpm, and if it weren't for the burble of the Magnaflow muffler, you'd think the engine had died.


*Anyway, I've installed the harness in the car, and I should be driving it around tomorrow after I take care of a couple other things (ran out of shrink tube for the last of the electrical connections, and I need to bleed the brakes).

Happy New Year, everyone!

Nick

[Buggin_74]

If you do adjust the idle, use the air bleed screw and not the throttle position screw.

Sorry to be harsh but that is a rough backyard mechanic bandaid fix and is not the correct way to do it.

The TB bleed screws are sealed from the factory for a reason.
The only way to ever adjust the idle on these engines is by loosening the mounting screws on the IACV and you will notice the holes are slotted so it can be rotated.

The computer sets the idle speed by controlling the IACV, when you frig with the throttle stop screw or the air bleed screw it cant compensate for the extra air coming in that it has no control over.
If you can't set the idle speed correctly by moving the IACV then it is just gummed up which they do or it's faulty

Re. the VSS as I said it varies from car to car but all of them will run better with one, even if you think it's working fine without one.
Mine was perfectly drivable without but it was even better once I did install one.
To correctly map the fuel output on over run it needs to know that the car is moving but the throttle is shut.

[itawolf]

If you do adjust the idle, use the air bleed screw and not the throttle position screw.

Sorry to be harsh but that is a rough backyard mechanic bandaid fix and is not the correct way to do it.

The TB bleed screws are sealed from the factory for a reason.
The only way to ever adjust the idle on these engines is by loosening the mounting screws on the IACV and you will notice the holes are slotted so it can be rotated.

The computer sets the idle speed by controlling the IACV, when you frig with the throttle stop screw or the air bleed screw it cant compensate for the extra air coming in that it has no control over.
If you can't set the idle speed correctly by moving the IACV then it is just gummed up which they do or it's faulty

Re. the VSS as I said it varies from car to car but all of them will run better with one, even if you think it's working fine without one.
Mine was perfectly drivable without but it was even better once I did install one.
To correctly map the fuel output on over run it needs to know that the car is moving but the throttle is shut.

Well said!! Not Harsh at all--I get so mad when I have to work on someones Sub and to find they have messed with the TB bleed screws

[TimS]

Sorry to be harsh but that is a rough backyard mechanic bandaid fix and is not the correct way to do it.

Hmm good to know. Don't worry you don't have to work on my car. Frankley I enjoy my backyard mechanics and use the best resources available to me and was simply trying to help, I'll stop now. Please cite your references on this so I can further educate myself. I've run vss until my throttle cable broke, no difference. Where can I find details to the inner workings of the subaru ECU, fuel maps vs. vss signal, etc.?

[Buggin_74]

What you do to your car is your buisness, I'm just trying to save people of going through the hassle of ending up with a car that wont idle properly or does wierd and wonderful poop cos the factory settings have been messed with.
Ask any subi mechanic what it;s like trying to reset all the settings on a car thats been messed with.
that's why all the adjustments are sealed with marking paint.

There's a really good online manual somewhere that explains alot of the ECU functions, you can probably find links on VWKD

[kyle_pc_75]

Great thread for those of us contemplating the swap.

Thanks!

Kyle

[Mooosman]

*Update*


Ok, I have the wiring harness installed for now, and I finally got some drive time today. The car runs very well, pull hard, and runs cool. Throttle response is great, and the thing idles and drives like no old VW I've ever been in. My only problem is stalling when coming to a stop. I expected it to happen with my lack of a speed sensor, so I wasn't too surprised. It happens when I slow down to 10-15mph and push the clutch in. If I heel-toe it, I can give it a bit of throttle as I'm pushing the clutch in, and it will stay alive. I get the common code 24 (idle air control valve) from the check engine light.

So, it looks like I need to build a speed sensor. I have looked at a bunch of design ideas from Vanagon guys, sandrail guys, and Subaru guys, and I think I have a couple ideas to try. I am going to try using a crank position sensor (basically a 3 wire hall effect sensor) on a bracket mounted to the transmission, which will then read from a metal spoked wheel attached to one of the CV joints. Many GM and Ford sensors (and many imports as well) use the common 5V reference that the Subaru needs to see for the VSS, so it might work to use a common crank sensor in this capacity.

Any thoughts are welcome if anyone has built a VSS before...

Nick

[Steve Arndt]

On Ebay small car (the subaru vanagaon guys) have pics of their inside CV joint mounted chopper wheel and sensor.

Most wheel speed (VSS) sensors are V reluctor, not hall. Make sure to use whatever type of sensor the suby is looking for. If I were you, I would duplicate the suby setup and install it on the inner cv flange, simple, out of the way, easy.

s

[Mooosman]

On Ebay small car (the subaru vanagaon guys) have pics of their inside CV joint mounted chopper wheel and sensor.

Most wheel speed (VSS) sensors are V reluctor, not hall. Make sure to use whatever type of sensor the suby is looking for. If I were you, I would duplicate the suby setup and install it on the inner cv flange, simple, out of the way, easy.

s

On all of my notes on this conversion (mostly factory service manuals), the VSS wire on the ECU just needs to see an alternating 0 --> 5V pulse, which is why I was thinking that any common reluctor sensor would fit the bill, be it an ABS sensor, crank sensor, cam sensor, etc.

The hall sensor I was thinking of was a distributor pickup. I don't know if that setup would work, though if the signal is an alternating 5V pulse I don't think it would matter...


Nick

[Buggin_74]

Have you seen the one I built?
A few more people have copied the design and it works well
Its just a cheap Proximity sensor, Inane cathode got the same one off EBay US for $10 i think

THe Gen1 like yours and mine just need a ground signal 5 times per wheel revolution
Its the late model OBD2 stuff that needs 5v signals

The standard subi one for gen1 cars is just a magnetic reed switch in the speedo cluster
It goes to ground each time the magnets pass by.

I've had mine up over 110mph and works fine but in theory its capable of a frequency rate equivelent to 300mph

[Mooosman]

The Gen1 like yours and mine just need a ground signal 5 times per wheel revolution
Its the late model OBD2 stuff that needs 5v signals

The standard subi one for gen1 cars is just a magnetic reed switch in the speedo cluster
It goes to ground each time the magnets pass by.

That's the information I couldn't find. I was over engineering the thing by thinking it needed a 5V reference.

I dug through my parts and found the cluster from the donor car, and took the reed switch out of it. Then, I epoxied a set of magnets to the left inner CV joint in an even pattern. I'm going to make a simple L bracket from aluminum and bolt it to the transmission case, then wire it to ground and the ECU. We'll see how it works; I tested the Subaru reed switch with my multimeter and a small magnet, and it switched with the magnet a good distance away. It should pick up the magnetic field of the CV joint mounted ones pretty easily, I hope.

If not, I'll give the "wheel of death" a try. Do you still have to run the 3 wire (+, -, signal) proximity sensor with the Gen I cars?

Nick,
whirring magnets and wires....yay.

[Buggin_74]

I did try making a reed switch with magnets setup on the CV which you probably saw, worked fine till I went over about 40mph then I started getting the 24 ICV error code everytime I coasted above about 25mph and sure enough it had stopped producing signal.

If you have no luck with it just search ebay for "NPN Proximity sensor"

They're 3 wire, one ground, one is ignition positive and ECU signal.

Most have an LED on them so you can tell when they are sensing metal going past.

[Mooosman]

I did try making a reed switch with magnets setup on the CV which you probably saw, worked fine till I went over about 40mph then I started getting the 24 ICV error code everytime I coasted above about 25mph and sure enough it had stopped producing signal.

Hmmm... not good. I'll give the magnets a try, but it looks like I may end up making a 'wheel of death' anyway.

Is there a template you used for the wheel? Something I could print out and trace onto metal if need be?

Nick

[Steve Arndt]

Have you seen this?




All the OBD2 engines from 1996 on require a vehicle speed sensor. The engines up to 1995 can also benefit from an SSK4, most conversions idle and perform better with one installed. This hall effect speed sensor bolts to a Vanagon transmission and the magnetic ring to a cv joint flange. It has 5 pulses per axle revolution which closely approximates the Subaru pulses per mile. Fits Syncro, 2wd manual and automatic. The SSK4 has an LED on the sender that indicates when it is functioning properly.


http://www.smallcar.com/index.php?dispa ... page_id=15

[Buggin_74]

They are a nice unit but Vanagons have a different CV bolt pattern to beetles.
also Gen1 cars use a ground signal instead of the 5volt one.

Nick give it a shot anyway it may work fine for you, I used a door magnet switch which i got the design for from somebody on the subaru-vanagon website who it worked fine for, maybe I was just unlucky.

You can get a printable version of the wheel of death from the subaruvanagon yahoo group archieves if your a member.
I cancelled my membership once I finished my conversion, couldnt handle 10-20 emails a day flooding my inbox.

but If you have no luck let me know and Ill try and make a copy up and email you.

Cheers
Joel