Small displacement engine swaps

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sideshow
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Re: Small displacement engine swaps

Post by sideshow » Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:46 am

Read it anyway you want; the 616 is nearly the easiest swap that conforms to size and not standard equipment rule (while dated in design pushrods will limit rpms), you can't race if you don't show (appearance), ghias look better than bugs(appearance).

However if you insist on a budget, racing probably isn't for you. Records are set with spending mind boggling amounts of money
Yeah some may call it overkill, but you can't have too much overkill.

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Re: Small displacement engine swaps

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:56 am

There is an old hot rodding saw/saying: "Open your wallet and show me how fast you want to go." (original author unknown).

I tried to look it up but no find other than this: http://www.localhistories.org/sayings.html Kind of interesting!

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Re: Small displacement engine swaps

Post by petew » Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:48 pm

sideshow wrote:
Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:46 am
Read it anyway you want; the 616 is nearly the easiest swap that conforms to size and not standard equipment rule (while dated in design pushrods will limit rpms), you can't race if you don't show (appearance), ghias look better than bugs(appearance).

However if you insist on a budget, racing probably isn't for you. Records are set with spending mind boggling amounts of money
What on earth is a "616"? I thought we were talking 1400cc?

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Re: Small displacement engine swaps

Post by sideshow » Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:28 pm

616 is slang for the series that the 356 engines belong, you will see that number cast into many of the parts like case/heads/electronics. I'm far too lazy to type out the flat four porsche engine that looks a lot like the 36hp/6 volt era acvw stuff and available new (well 50 years ago) in ~1.1 liter to 1.6 liter.
Yeah some may call it overkill, but you can't have too much overkill.

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Re: Small displacement engine swaps

Post by WickedWagens » Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:42 pm

I had to look up what the 616 was yesterday also. I know it cost money to race. I set two SCTA land speed records last year. I am building a 1915cc turbo charged engine from the ground up to run a whole 4 miles then it will come out and either sit in the corner of the garage or be sold to fund the next project. That is why I am looking at other engines and what is available. This engine will probably run 2-2mile runs and be taken out and the next engine will go in. So yes I know, My wallet has been opened, flipped over and shaken until even the dust has fallen out.
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1968 Ghia Land Speed Car
G/CFALT 106.643 MPH 8/2016
G/CGALT 113.131 MPH 9/2016
G/CBGALT 134.606 MPH 8/2017
G/CBFALT 146.715 MPH 8/2017

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Re: Small displacement engine swaps

Post by petew » Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:46 am

sideshow wrote:
Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:28 pm
616 is slang for the series that the 356 engines belong, you will see that number cast into many of the parts like case/heads/electronics. I'm far too lazy to type out the flat four porsche engine that looks a lot like the 36hp/6 volt era acvw stuff and available new (well 50 years ago) in ~1.1 liter to 1.6 liter.
Right... :roll: No wonder I was confused. 356 would have sufficed, but surely that's pretty pricey now?

P.s. that's a VERY sweet looking ghia! 8)

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Re: Small displacement engine swaps

Post by sideshow » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:53 am

For ever 15 356s I see, maybe 1 will have a 616 series engine. Of course most are reproductions to begin with. Beetle engines are the normal 356 engines anymore.

What do the LSR people run out of first? Torque, RPM, Traction?
Yeah some may call it overkill, but you can't have too much overkill.

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Re: Small displacement engine swaps

Post by WickedWagens » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:10 am

I think hp and rpm are the biggest hurdles with the smaller engines. Torque could be an issue with the long gearing. I haven't seen traction being an issue until you get to the really fast high hp cars.
1968 Ghia Land Speed Car
G/CFALT 106.643 MPH 8/2016
G/CGALT 113.131 MPH 9/2016
G/CBGALT 134.606 MPH 8/2017
G/CBFALT 146.715 MPH 8/2017

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Re: Small displacement engine swaps

Post by WickedWagens » Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:20 pm

Talking with the rules officials this engine would have to be pre 90's. So that narrows it down even farther now. I am looking at the watercooled 8v 1.5, but i cant seem to find much information on them. Anyone have any sources for 1500/1600 water pumper information?
1968 Ghia Land Speed Car
G/CFALT 106.643 MPH 8/2016
G/CGALT 113.131 MPH 9/2016
G/CBGALT 134.606 MPH 8/2017
G/CBFALT 146.715 MPH 8/2017

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petew
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Re: Small displacement engine swaps

Post by petew » Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:17 pm

Well, that's the 4AGE toyota engine (1600). There's bags of parts for them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_A_ ... 0-valve.29

Suzuki G13B (1300), again there are bags of parts for them too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_G_engine#G13B

These are the best 2 pre-90s car engines you can find easily in the US I'd reckon. A few of them start in 89 so that puts you on the border nicely. Sadly the 20 valve 4age didn't start til the early 90s.

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petew
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Re: Small displacement engine swaps

Post by petew » Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:21 pm

P.s. you could try the Honda B16A, but even though it's an 89 engine in Japan, the US didn't get it til 92 so that might have you in trouble.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VTEC

The other issue being, these motors rotate counter-clockwise. You can get cams to fix this, but it's more issues to fix.

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Re: Small displacement engine swaps

Post by petew » Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:55 pm

Half a 13b rotary would be cool. Depending on how they class rotary capacity...

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Re: Small displacement engine swaps

Post by WickedWagens » Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:21 am

I think the rotary engine gets a x2.5 penalty so it makes them non competitive.
1968 Ghia Land Speed Car
G/CFALT 106.643 MPH 8/2016
G/CGALT 113.131 MPH 9/2016
G/CBGALT 134.606 MPH 8/2017
G/CBFALT 146.715 MPH 8/2017

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petew
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Re: Small displacement engine swaps

Post by petew » Sat Sep 09, 2017 2:24 am

WickedWagens wrote:
Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:21 am
I think the rotary engine gets a x2.5 penalty so it makes them non competitive.
Sadface. That's ridiculous. They should put a x2 penalty for anything with a V8. :roll:

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WickedWagens
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Re: Small displacement engine swaps

Post by WickedWagens » Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:29 pm

Even worse. I looked up the rules and it is a x3 penalty for a rotary, 1300ccx3 = 3900cc. That class is 3.01 liter -4.26 liter. Not able to be competitive at all.
1968 Ghia Land Speed Car
G/CFALT 106.643 MPH 8/2016
G/CGALT 113.131 MPH 9/2016
G/CBGALT 134.606 MPH 8/2017
G/CBFALT 146.715 MPH 8/2017

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