unwanted oil distribution

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dmend
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unwanted oil distribution

Post by dmend » Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:40 pm

I'm having a problem with oil leaking from various locations of my 1600 DP engine when driving at high speeds and climbing and descending big hills. I live in the Midwest (flatland) and have been traveling out west where the hills are steep and have long climbs to the top. From what I can see it looks like I'm spraying out oil from three places:

1.oil blow-by tube: aside from routing it to a new location or getting it to drip closer to the ground there isn't much I can do with this

2. behind the pulley, where the crank protrudes through the case: I have a sand seal but that doesn't keep oil in, only sand out.

3. main seal. I have a new flywheel and main seal.

It should also be noted that I get 40+psi oil pressure using 10w40. I have an external oil filter and the pump is rated as stock.
I don't have this problem running in the flat Midwest, only out west in the big hills. I also pull a trailer that weighs about 700 lbs. loaded and cruise the highways at 70-75 mph up to 6 hours a day on these trips. I know I'm working the engine hard so there must be plenty of internal pressure to force oil out these locations especially when the engine gets tipped up and down.

Aside from using a lighter weight oil that may reduce my oil pressure is there much else I can do about this problem? I'm thinking the VW engine is not the engine for this type of driving, but I thought I'd get others opinions on this situation before attempting to change to a water cooled engine.

Thanks,
Dmend

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sideshow
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Re: unwanted oil distribution

Post by sideshow » Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:29 pm

Can't see the picture, what do you use for crank case venting?
Yeah some may call it overkill, but you can't have too much overkill.

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SCOTTRODS
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Re: unwanted oil distribution

Post by SCOTTRODS » Wed Aug 02, 2017 6:16 am

If you have oil "distribution" from the Main seal... you have a bad seal or damaged it or the crankshaft on assembly... There shouldn't be any reason for that unless your crank case has excessive pressure. In that case, you could have a bad piston, broken rings on one or more cylinders, or valves that are completely out of whack as far as lash/adjustment... The Drip tube is normal... but with a sand seal, you need specifically crank case ventilation that was mentioned above by [sideshow]... If you have the added PCV system that should have been done when the sand seal was added, you may have a bad PCV valve (if one was used...)
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dmend
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Re: unwanted oil distribution

Post by dmend » Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:48 pm

Don't have a picture. The only ventilation is the drip tube on the oil filler.

The internal parts should be good as I rebuilt it 2 years ago with new pistons/jugs, cam, crank, heads. I keep a close watch on the valve lash when driving it hard. On a cold compression check: #1@100 lbs, #2,3,& 4 @ 90 lbs.

I didn't know I needed crank case ventilation with a sand seal. I'll look into this. If I pulled off the sand seal wouldn't it be more likely that oil would seep out behind the pulley either under high internal pressure or when the engine is tipped upward (as when climbing steep hills)?

Since I have a new seal and flywheel I could be wrong about the leakage there this year. The bottom of the engine is wet and I tend to think that leakage from the back (pulley) side would not flow forward when the wind is pushing backwards. Last year with the same wet conditions I did have a bad seal and scored flywheel, that's why new one's are in there now.

Your thoughts?
dmend

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SCOTTRODS
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Re: unwanted oil distribution

Post by SCOTTRODS » Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:34 am

A lot of typical leaks are the seals under the oil cooler. Could be *that* running down the engine where you cannot see it? Crank case pressure relief is an issue with the sand seal a lot of times. If you had it machined for the sand seal, it will leak like CRAZY if you remove the seal unless the seal is different than ones I have seen done and been around. Basically the bore is machined out around the crankshaft to allow for the seal, where there was a much tighter tolerance before... and the length of the closer tolerance surface is gonna be shorter... I would leave the sand seal in or replace it with a new one...

Before the sand seal, the bore actually allowed some air out, but the spiral groove around the crank caused oil to be "pumped" inward... May not be the best explanation, but the general idea is there I hope. Sand seal changes the crank case pressures a bit.

Keep in mind... I'm getting to be a geezer and a lot of these things are different than when I was younger... You may have things covered already... Also I'm not sitting here with my books open... working from memory... I am definitely capable of getting it completely wrong as well.

Do you have the little drip tube "seal" that goes on the end of the tube?
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dmend
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Re: unwanted oil distribution

Post by dmend » Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:11 am

I forgot about the oil cooler seals. I'll check those out for leakage.

On this case the sand seal fit in easily. The first year I had this problem I caulked/gasket sealed the outside of the seal at the case edges but that didn't help stop the leakage, but that year I had a definite main seal problem. I also gasket sealed (on the outside) around the external oil pump/filter and along the case seam where I could reach.

Your explanation of the screw pumping oil inward makes sense. There is also the spinner disc that is located there that is supposed to keep the oil in the case.

The drip tube has no "seal" on the end of it. I never saw a seal in any parts book. I have a piece of leather handing down from it to absorb and route any drips lower.

Just had this thought. The plate the oil drain plug is in only torques to 5 ft lbs (from memory also) and there is only a paper gasket there. That's not much and with higher internal pressure maybe oil is being forced out where that plate and the case meet. That could explain the case wet underneath and the oil being driven to the back of the engine, then blows upward and out getting what is behind me oily? Does that seem plausible?

dmend

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sideshow
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Re: unwanted oil distribution

Post by sideshow » Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:29 pm

A road draft tube is not enough “crank case breather” by it self and has all ready fallen out of favor last century.

If you don't vent the case, it will leak, regardless of your opinion on if it should or not.
Yeah some may call it overkill, but you can't have too much overkill.

dmend
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Re: unwanted oil distribution

Post by dmend » Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:56 pm

I'm not denying the case needs venting, just trying to understand this. So, it looks like a breather kit is the new addition to the engine. Thanks for your help.
dmend

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