Floor pan swap

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Manny
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Floor pan swap

Post by Manny » Sun Jun 11, 2017 9:48 pm

Been away from the forums for a while.
I'm in the middle of a floor pan swap on my Mexican bug. The engine was hanging low from bent forks.
Bought a brand new pan from Mexico, what a beauty.
Today, I finished installing the transaxle and when doing the shift rod......
The shifter location in the Mexican is about 1.75" aft , makes me now have to shorten my shift rod or find a new one, probably from Mexico.
Has anyone gone thru this, it's a hell of a project to find things like this on the home stretch.
If there are different length rods, is news to me.
Manny

Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: Floor pan swap

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Sun Jun 11, 2017 10:28 pm

Manny, as an option to trying to find a longer or shorter stock shift rod or to shortening or lengthening the shift rod yourself, most VW shops carry this little jewel: http://vwcatalog.empius.com/vwcatalog/2016/382.html. This is EMPI's catalogue picture; they call it a "shift rod adjuster" but it can be used for a lot of different shift rod things. It also allows minute shift rod length adjustment.

On my shortened wheel base buggy I made my own; not hard to do but the price of this may not be that bad and does save a lot of time. Contact your favorite ACVW supply place and talk to them for availability and price.

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Marc
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Re: Floor pan swap

Post by Marc » Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:38 am

There are three shiftrod lengths for `65-up 4-speed Beetles. The shifter was moved back in `68 and again in `73 (presumably the Mexican pan uses the `73-up one). Year-for-year, Standard and Super are identical.

Auto Sticks have slightly shorter shift rods than their 4-speed contemporaries, and the coupler is also displaced angularly by ~15°, so avoid those.

Manny
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Re: Floor pan swap

Post by Manny » Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:48 am

Thanks, just ordered from CIP1
I hate surprises and this was definitely in that category.
You would think that a new from the factory floor pan would at least be dimensionally equal to the old pan.
I know this much: The Puebla (Mexico) VW factory has German tooling and German upper management, if they sell a pan knowing that the shifter is relocated almost two inches , it would be good to include the correct shift rod with the pan, heck, they included the four bolts to attach the front end.

Manny
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Re: Floor pan swap

Post by Manny » Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:48 am

Thanks, just ordered from CIP1
I hate surprises and this was definitely in that category.
You would think that a new from the factory floor pan would at least be dimensionally equal to the old pan.
I know this much: The Puebla (Mexico) VW factory has German tooling and German upper management, if they sell a pan knowing that the shifter is relocated almost two inches , it would be good to include the correct shift rod with the pan, heck, they included the four bolts to attach the front end.

Manny
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Re: Floor pan swap

Post by Manny » Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:04 pm

Marc, I did some measuring and the '73 up will place the cup in the slot but 3/8' away from center. That places the shifter at a funny angle if it doesn't hit something in the process.
Gun shy and desperate, that's where I find myself at this time.
I have quite a few parts in the junk box that were either ordered wrong or not worth returning.
Not available from Mexico either.
Shoot!!

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Marc
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Re: Floor pan swap

Post by Marc » Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:38 am

Manny wrote:
Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:04 pm
...I did some measuring and the '73 up will place the cup in the slot but 3/8' away from center.
Is it too long or too short? If it's too short just cut the trans end of another shift coupler off, shorten this coupler by the required amount and weld the piece to it.

IIRC the `73-up is 1½" shorter than the `68-`72, measuring 41-11/16" from the center of the cup to the center of the coupler hole. Is the `73 rod you have properly swaybacked or did someone attempt to make it straight, making it longer in the process?

Typically whenever VW did a model change or closed a production line in Germany they would ship the stamping dies to plants in other countries where they would be used to replace older ones or expand production - it doesn't seem likely that the Mexican plant would have come up with a proprietary dimension for the shift rod, especially one that's only ⅜" different. In fact, if you Google the part number (111 711 155G) you'll find it represented as fitting both `73-`79 German and the Mexi-Beetle. Pay no mind to the few idiot parts-sellers who say it also fits `68-`72, that's just what you get when the merchant's younger than the cars he deals with - the correct P/N for those is the 155F.

Is the `73 rod you have properly swaybacked or did someone attempt to make it straight? It's supposed to have a slight curve in it where it passes below the e-brake mechanism.

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Re: Floor pan swap

Post by Marc » Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:46 am

Marc wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:38 am
Manny wrote:
Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:04 pm
...I did some measuring and the '73 up will place the cup in the slot but 3/8' away from center.
Is it too long or too short? If it's too short just cut the trans end of another shift coupler off, shorten this coupler by the required amount and weld the piece to it.

IIRC the `73-up is 1½" shorter than the `68-`72, measuring 41-11/16" from the center of the cup to the center of the coupler hole. Is the `73 rod you have properly swaybacked or did someone attempt to make it straight, making it longer in the process?

Typically whenever VW did a model change or closed a production line in Germany they would ship the stamping dies to plants in other countries where they would be used to replace older ones or expand production - it doesn't seem likely that the Mexican plant would have come up with a proprietary dimension for the shift rod, especially one that's only ⅜" different. In fact, if you Google the part number (111 711 155G) you'll find it represented as fitting both `73-`79 German and the Mexi-Beetle. You'll also find some idiots selling it for `68-`72 applications, that's just what you get when the parts-sellers are younger than the cars they deal with - pay it no mind.

Is the `73 rod you have properly swaybacked or did someone attempt to make it straight? It's supposed to have a slight curve in it where it passes below the e-brake mechanism.

Manny
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Re: Floor pan swap

Post by Manny » Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:55 pm

Just received a "new" '73up shift rod from CIP1.
What a piece of shinola. The angle head for the shifter is welded crooked and it is the worst weld I have seen ever. The hole for the shift coupler is not centered and far from being perpendicular to the shifter.
I installed this contraption and it's going to take a lot of adjusting to get the tranny to shift right.
Calling CIP1 in the morning.
Last edited by Marc on Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Manny
Posts: 335
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2005 8:42 am

Re: Floor pan swap

Post by Manny » Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:55 pm

Just received a "new" '73up shift rod from CIP1.
What a piece of shinola. The angle head for the shifter is welded crooked and it is the worst weld I have seen ever. The hole for the shift coupler is not centered and far from being perpendicular to the shifter.
I installed this contraption and it's going to take a lot of adjusting to get the tranny to shift right.
Calling CIP1 in the morning.

Manny
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Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2005 8:42 am

Re: Floor pan swap

Post by Manny » Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:36 am

No response from CIP1
A quick reply was promised after they checked their warehouse inventory and determined that all the shift rods they had were not acceptable. So much for quality control.
Already bought a used part from Interstate Used Parts. expect arrival next week.
I really hope I can provide a positive review.

eericson
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Re: Floor pan swap

Post by eericson » Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:53 am

Manny: Sorry for your trouble. This sounds hella frustrating and I hope you get things squared-away soon.

In case you don't, and for future reference: shortening a VW shift rod is a really simple process and standard procedure in the kit car world. The afore-mentioned "shift rod adjuster" end piece [ http://vwcatalog.empius.com/vwcatalog/2016/382.html ] is the easiest solution, since it's made to weld into the pipe and doesn't require precise measurement. But cutting, shortening and re-welding a shift-rod is pretty easy to do without any extra parts. Use a rod that's the right shape on both ends (i.e. your original German one). Find a spot that's straight on it, and draw two parallel lines along the sides. Using a miter saw to keep it square, cut the excess length out. Now find a "plug" for the ends. A piece of the same steel tube, just a little smaller, is best. But plumbing supplies can work (I used a brass piece on mine) or even the piece you just cut" slice it lengthwise and aquuze it down smaller. Reassembled the rod, lining up your lines. Then sock a couple of self-tapping sheet metal screws or rivets in it to keep it aligned.

The next step is hardest. I tried to weld mine with a stick welders and immediately blew big holes in it. Don't be like me! [ https://bridgetmgtd.wordpress.com/2014/ ... continued/] Bring the thing to a muffler shop and ask them to weld it. My guys did it for $10. Or buy some brazing rod. That works as well. Once it's welded or brazed, remove the screws or rivets and grind it smooth.

None of this should be necessary with a stock pan, of course, and you're right to be p-o'd about it. But you will succeed in the end.

Manny
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Re: Floor pan swap

Post by Manny » Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:27 am

Almost done!
The shift rod already discussed.
The brake lines don't run along the same routing in the rear, had to replace the driver's side.
One of the heater cable tubes is plugged solid; good thing I have headers and don't need heaters in South Florida.
The reason for the new floor pan was bent fork. Now the engine hangs nice, gained 3 inches in ground clearance, so.......
Had to redo the surround cooling baffles,also
redo the access to the Dellorto mixture screws.
Nice bow on the clutch Bowden tube.
Now, with rear disc brakes, the parking brake cable on the left side is too short( not the cable, the sheath between the tube on the floor pan and the caliper itself). The Z bar linkage hits the parking brake cable, another issue here.
Any ideas on the parking brake issue are most welcome. The parts vendors list the length of the cables, not the length of the sheath.
Anyone contemplating a project like this, let me know so we can share in the misery.

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