1972 Beetle - Want Advice on Replacing Front Suspension/Steering Linkages

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Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: 1972 Beetle - Want Advice on Replacing Front Suspension/Steering Linkages

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Sun Mar 05, 2017 7:20 pm

deleted as it is confusing. Lee
Last edited by Ol'fogasaurus on Sun Mar 05, 2017 8:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1972 Beetle - Want Advice on Replacing Front Suspension/Steering Linkages

Post by rrb6699 » Sun Mar 05, 2017 7:46 pm

I'm sorry, but, I can hardly follow what you are talking about. I saw the post and all these pics before you posted here. not sure what you mean by "hooks" and "fitting cycles".

the big difference I see is both of your ball joints are pressed in the same direction. my bottom is pressed in from the bottom and my upper is pressed in from the top.

I re-read all the answers in this thread and one answer said press the lower BJ with the notches perpendicular to vehicle centerline and now one says perpendicular to the control arm.

also, I mention it looks like the bottom of my lower control arm boss is not straight but angular. see prev post pic this thread)

im sure the BJ will just follow the inside of the boss . however, it looks like about 1/32 of the spindle side of the BJ will be showing. not enough to pop out I'm sure but looks funny to me.
RR

1972 Restoration Project.

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Re: 1972 Beetle - Want Advice on Replacing Front Suspension/Steering Linkages

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Sun Mar 05, 2017 8:07 pm

Sorry RR, this has not been a good weekend so I am very tired and must have made things too confusing. Ignore what I have posted; I will remove them later on.

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Re: 1972 Beetle - Want Advice on Replacing Front Suspension/Steering Linkages

Post by rrb6699 » Sun Mar 05, 2017 8:21 pm

N P. read my last few posts when you are fresh. I do the same thing sometimes push too hard.
RR

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Re: 1972 Beetle - Want Advice on Replacing Front Suspension/Steering Linkages

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Sun Mar 05, 2017 8:26 pm

Since I am not home I don't have access to pix or other things so I tried to do with what I had. Correct me if I am wrong but I think the lower BJ presses in from the top of the lower trailing arm which is why us'n off-roaders have problems with pulling the lower BJ loose at times.

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Re: 1972 Beetle - Want Advice on Replacing Front Suspension/Steering Linkages

Post by rrb6699 » Sun Mar 05, 2017 8:37 pm

unless mine were installed wrong, my lowers on my Beetle are pressed in from the bottom, uppers from the top. see my prev posts & pics. it shows my right lower still intact before I remove it.
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Re: 1972 Beetle - Want Advice on Replacing Front Suspension/Steering Linkages

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Sun Mar 05, 2017 10:32 pm

http://chircoestore.com/vw-dune-buggy-b ... buggy.html

http://www.mooreparts.com/ball-joints-king-link-pins/

It looks like my memory is incorrect. The lower BJ presses up not down.

I apologize!
Lee

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Re: 1972 Beetle - Want Advice on Replacing Front Suspension/Steering Linkages

Post by rrb6699 » Mon Mar 06, 2017 12:08 am

n. p. just noticed in your posts they are both pushed in from the top. is that how it is on Things?
RR

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Re: 1972 Beetle - Want Advice on Replacing Front Suspension/Steering Linkages

Post by Marc » Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:41 am

Things and Buses have both balljoints "pointing down" so that the weight of the car pushes them into the control arms.

On Beetles, the lower is held into the control arm bore only by the press-fit. On such a lightweight vehicle, it works. German engineers aren't fools, if doing it like that wasn't up to the task they'd never have gone that way.

The spindle configuration determines it, it's not an option to put them in "wrong".


Has this thread REALLY gone on for SEVEN pages?

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Re: 1972 Beetle - Want Advice on Replacing Front Suspension/Steering Linkages

Post by rrb6699 » Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:51 am

yea, sorry. if I weren't such a newbie at this I wouldn't be overly inquisitive. I know the German engineering is sound. I was just wondering if it was really that way on the Thing. wish I could find one of those to restore.

I saw a vid on lowering the front end. although it didnt help me much it was the same year Beetle and identical front end.
But, I can't help but wonder lowering the front end would only require drop spindles and no other parts. this guy sorta gave that impression.
RR

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Re: 1972 Beetle - Want Advice on Replacing Front Suspension/Steering Linkages

Post by Piledriver » Mon Mar 06, 2017 2:08 am

Drop spindles are the best way to lower the front end, as std suspension geometry is preserved.
You do have to be concerned about tire clearance etc, the most common T1 wheels don't really have the ideal offset, and the drop spindles place them a little further out than stock.
Last edited by Piledriver on Mon Mar 06, 2017 2:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1972 Beetle - Want Advice on Replacing Front Suspension/Steering Linkages

Post by Marc » Mon Mar 06, 2017 2:15 am

The beauty of using drop spindles rather than changing the anchor points of the spring stacks is that all the stock suspension and steering geometry is maintained - even stock-length shocks fit the same.You avoid the rough ride and bump steer that come with lowering the front end any other way....and yes, the spindles are the only components that need changing on late`68 and newer Beetles (`66-early`68 ones had smaller tierod-end studs and inner wheel bearings/grease seals and most all drop spindles are made in the "late" configuration).

Any lowering method that results in the front coming down more than the rear will result in a loss of caster (even just using smaller front tires will do it). If this causes an unacceptable loss of high-speed stability it's a fairly simple operation to slip some shims made for the purpose between the bottom beam tube and the frame head to restore the beam's original relationship to the pavement (some folks even like adding caster to a "level" chassis if they do a lot of freeway driving).

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Re: 1972 Beetle - Want Advice on Replacing Front Suspension/Steering Linkages

Post by rrb6699 » Mon Mar 06, 2017 2:30 am

wow, I think thats something I want to consider after doing this bj job. I like the rear to sit higher than the front mostly from my muscle car jacked up rears. love that look.

right now I just want to get back on the road in this great weather in FL now. plusvi can clean up the entire hub assembly and regrease everything aling with thebnew spindles. shims are probably what I'd do in that case. how many would be necessary? just a couple?
RR

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Re: 1972 Beetle - Want Advice on Replacing Front Suspension/Steering Linkages

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Mon Mar 06, 2017 3:32 am

We're all newbies at the start, some of us just take longer to get out of the newbe state and move on.

The reason for the "rake" in cars dates back to the time when Fords had a "Banjo" style of rear end (ending in '48) and you could install a "quick change" diff in it. They found that at the track, if the rear of the car was higher, that you could change gear ratios w/o jacking the car up. That was pretty much the start of it.

Cars back then were either "snake rapers" (later a golf term but to judge lowness you should be able to lay a cigarette pack on the ground sideways and slide it under the frame of the car and it would just barely touch. That was long before "turtles" on the road. Before the ground huggers the rear (with contintental kit) was low (lowering blocks) and the front end was stock. I remember seeing them like that in the mid-50s.

Then came the long "shackles" and air shocks (not the gas shock style we now call air shocks but the type you could add air to to lift the rear of the car up. Both dangerous but then so were the worm burner low riders of the era. Even the bumper jacks weren't low enough to get under the bumper to lift the car to change a flat.

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Re: 1972 Beetle - Want Advice on Replacing Front Suspension/Steering Linkages

Post by rrb6699 » Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:04 am

nice bit of nostalgic info there. I remember most of those starting in the late 60s on pretty much any car. I've seen lifted rears on Dodge Darts, R/Ts (I had), GTOs (also), Chevelles, Novas, 442s, Bugs - I could go on.

Right now my bug sits slightly higher in the front. maybe an inch or less. a 2.5" lower would be perfect for it. I've just finished the interior and the engine is good and running smooth. paint and airbrushing next after some sanding and minor dent popping. I'm not sure if I'm gonna strip all the paint off or just what the best way to do tha is yet.. I'm used to restoring boats. sanding gelcoat and fiberglass is familiar to me but metal? never prepped anything metal.

today I'm hoping to get the lower ball joints in and hope someone takes a look at my control arm in the pic earlier this thread and tell me if thats ok to press the BJ into with that tapered bottom.

I'm gonna pop the ball out of the BJ socket it is in first on the right lower BJ bcause with the harbor freight tool it was easy work to get the ball off the spindle assy and pushing the rest of it out of the control arm worked easily with the AutoZone loaner.

I havent tried pressing one in yet. the loaner tool doesn't have the right diameter to press one in which is why I had it set up like I did in the earlier photo where it's set to go but showing that arm boss with that bottom taper which stopped me till I check with you guys here about pressing it in that boss.
RR

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