Cooling tin question... because search is bunk for me.

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Turbinepowered
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Cooling tin question... because search is bunk for me.

Post by Turbinepowered » Sun May 29, 2011 8:33 pm

So, in the process of helping a friend work on my former '73, I'm discovering just how much tin that poor car is missing.

Image

We have, in usable shape, 30, 35, 1 for both sides. We have 6, 9 and 10 but their condition is complete crap.

We have a good line on #5 for both sides and #11 (and it's counterpart on the other side), and also good used versions of 6, 9, 10, 14, 15, and 23.

My question is, what are parts 43, 45, 52 and 52 for, and where in the world can I find good, used or new parts #7 and 8?

This engine is apparently not set up for a doghouse oil cooler; that conversion will come later, I think. Right now we'd just like to get the tin put back together on a budget...

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Glenn
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Re: Cooling tin question... because search is bunk for me.

Post by Glenn » Sun May 29, 2011 9:04 pm

That diagram shows tin for a number of years and not every piece is used on every engine.

#7 & #8 are "shoe boxes" for a 36hp engine.

#45 & #52 are dual heatriser parts and only for 1974 California cars.

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Re: Cooling tin question... because search is bunk for me.

Post by Turbinepowered » Sun May 29, 2011 10:53 pm

Awesome!

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Re: Cooling tin question... because search is bunk for me.

Post by david58 » Sun May 29, 2011 11:41 pm

http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic ... 43&start=0
david58 wrote:Thanks volkaholic1 for making these great videos. Oh and thank the camera crew too. :wink:

Part 1 - How to install type 1 vw air cooled engine tin - introduction

Part 2 - VW fan shrouds and installing thermostat flaps

Part 3 - air cooled VW fan and generator mounting

Part 4 - Hoover bit installation on type 1 air cooled VW engine

Part 5 - Lower cylinder air deflector installation

Part 6 - Oil filler installation on air cooled vw engine

Part 7 - Crankshaft pulley tin installation

Part 8 - VW engine cylinder tin installation

Part 9 - Heater box sleds installation

Part 10 - Fan Shroud Installation

Part 11 - Thermostat linkage and bracket installation

Part 12 - Firewall tin installation

Part 13 - doghouse oil cooler exhaust tin installation

Part 14 2and4 lower air deflectors and carb stove pipe installation

Part 15 - Big pulley tin installation

Part 16 - crank nut cover and carb preheat pipe insulation
Hot, humid air is less dense than cooler, drier air. This can allow a golf ball to fly through the air with greater ease, as there won't be as much resistance on the ball.

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Re: Cooling tin question... because search is bunk for me.

Post by Turbinepowered » Mon May 30, 2011 12:18 am

I spotted those videos earlier, which is part of why I was wondering what the heck 7&8 were, since they weren't in that entire series of videos...

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Re: Cooling tin question... because search is bunk for me.

Post by Marc » Mon May 30, 2011 10:49 am

Turbinepowered wrote:...This engine is apparently not set up for a doghouse oil cooler...
A non-doghouse cooler's not a good idea with dualport heads...tell us more about this engine - what's the case ID number?
Glenn wrote:...#7 & #8 are "shoe boxes" for a 36hp engine...
Actually those are for the `61/`62 (and very early `63) 1200cc 40 SAE HP engine - the exhaust "J-tubes" run inside them to contribute more heat, whereas they were on the outside on the 36HP.

Turbinepowered, be aware that there are several versions of #33, depending upon the version of #30 being used and whether or not a road draft tube is fitted. #38 is a "luxury" item, not needed for function. #5, 6, 9, 10 & 11 (and its brother) come in two different widths, pre`66 being ¼" or so narrower for the shorter-stroke early engine. The correct #11 for a `73 has no hole; the RH piece has nearly half cut away to clear the warmair pickup elbow and the road-draft tube (even though the latter was dropped in `73).

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Re: Cooling tin question... because search is bunk for me.

Post by Turbinepowered » Mon May 30, 2011 9:02 pm

I went out to the garage and checked the shroud again; it is, in fact, doghouse, and I mis-remembered.

I have his tins (such as they are) over here with me for cleaning and re-application of a good epoxy paint so they look good again.

30 and 33 both came off the engine; I think it has a provision for a (missing, of course) road draft tube, but lacking the stock air cleaner (we really need to find a good one for a single-barrel center-mount carburetor, Solex but I can't remember the specific model) and having a very hot climate I think we're planning to just leave that and the warm air pickup missing (for now, at least). It's possible that they're mix-n-match, and neither is correct for the year or engine, but I'm not sure. Might have to break out the camera and start taking snapshots.

We have some stock heat exchangers that don't seem to have any internal leaks; planning to clean them up, test them for leaks, and if they don't leak we're going to put them back on.

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Re: Cooling tin question... because search is bunk for me.

Post by Marc » Tue May 31, 2011 8:39 am

Any mid`60s-`74 aircleaner will fit the carb and clear the electric choke. `68-up have the correct large-diameter warm air inlet, and `70-up will have a nipple for the purge hose coming from the charcoal canister. `73/`74 paper-element air cleaners have a larger breather hose (a special molded U-shaped hose rather than bulk braided hose). The oil filler/breather assembly from an earlier engine is needed to match the hose diameter of the pre`73 aircleaner, and that'll have a road draft tube.
If you have to buy one, look for the type with integral thermostat; that simplifies making the warm air system functional if it becomes necessary.
Image

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Re: Cooling tin question... because search is bunk for me.

Post by Turbinepowered » Tue May 31, 2011 5:12 pm

Puttering around looking for parts...

Are the "warm air pickup elbow" and "carburetor stovepipe" the same piece of metal?

I'm also guessing that an early style (better condition from my pile than the one on the engine) breather won't work too well with a late style ('73/'74) replaceable element air filter box (on which there is a really good deal within my grasp... $5 for the cleaner housing)?

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Re: Cooling tin question... because search is bunk for me.

Post by Turbinepowered » Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:19 am

Pictures update.

All the usable tins (and some intake bits) that I could salvage out of the bunch. Only one that isn't in this picture is the under-pulley tin, and that's because I haven't pulled it from the engine yet.

Image

And a close-up of the rear plate:

Image

So, looking at this, we have an oil filler with a road draft tube and no provision in the tins for such. No functioning under-cylinder tins of any stripe, but the upper cylinder tins are good ones (complete with the vane inside) that just need a little light repair. Shroud is in good shape.


We need: later style oil filler w/out draft tube, carb preheat stovepipe (guessing that's what the extra hole in that tin is for), #11 and it's counterpart w/out holes, 2x #5, 1x #6, #9, #10, #14 & 15, #17, and #23 with provision for doghouse coolers. Sound right?

Before winter, if we want to hook up heat, we'll also need whatever fittings are needed to go between the hoses coming off the shroud and the heat exchanger inlets, but that's winter and it's summer now, no heat required (please, take some, I need to get some welding done and that's no fun when it's almost 100F)!

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Re: Cooling tin question... because search is bunk for me.

Post by Marc » Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:08 pm

You'll also need one #20 and the "Hoover bit" (see volkaholic's video part 4).
#14 & #15 are not applicable to freshair engines.
Although you may run with no freshair hoses or preheat hose (provided the holes from the shroud and in #30 are sealed up) you should realize that the heater boxes are designed to receive cooling air flow even when the heat is "off" - that's what the slots are for up at the control-valve end, to exhaust hot air. Many do run heater boxes with no freshair hoses, but they'll hold a lot of heat right under the heads. The big holes in #30 can be filled with electrical-panel knockout plugs; a cheap substitute can be made by cutting the bottom ¼" off of a couple of soda cans and sandwiching them over the hole with a screw/nut through a small hole poked in the center of each.
No need to change the oil filler/breather unless you'll be going to the paper-element `73/`74 air cleaner. Personally I'd rather have an oil-bath air cleaner and the road draft tube. `73-up breather/fillers that aren't rusted out are hard to find - they tend to fill with condensate because of the lack of a draft tube, particularly on engines with no thermostat. Even with the paper-element air cleaner you could still use the earlier oil filler if you adapted the breather hose diameter.

http://www.1800vw.bizhosting.com/images ... inkage.jpg
(2)#9, (2)#24, some freshair hose and a few clamps are all that's needed to connect the heater boxes.

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Re: Cooling tin question... because search is bunk for me.

Post by Turbinepowered » Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:28 pm

Thanks Marc.

We do have #20, it's still attached to the shroud and is getting cleaned up and painted (And a crack fixed) right along with the shroud. [edit] Forgot about the Hoover bit; need to pick that up too but it's not expensive. Cheaper than 14 and 15!

So I don't need #s 7, 8, 14, or 15 with the engine we have, and I can block off the hole for the preheat tube with a knockout plug (I think we have some of those around here, I know dad has a few panels...).

I think Tim plans to install the fresh-air tubes for the heat exchangers, we'll just leave them closed up front until we finish fixing the rest of the heat system later.. Looking at the image you just linked, the elbows are part of the muffler so I guess we can find something in the metal conduit section of the store to make that link for the air bleed to keep them cool

Thanks a bunch, my biggest experience with cooling tins was on a T3, and even there I was kinda lost. I have something of an excuse, I was only 19 at the time... :D

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