total seal not seating and reusing/trying again

jim martin · Post by **jim martin** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 1:21 pm

what seams too be the way is. when something goes sour ,the time you spend resurching the problem and the info you gather is worth gold.
i have now talked too many people and gathered alot of info .some of the best info comes from child & albert .after talking too a fellow named bruce walker,who by the way was in no rush too get rid of me until i completely understood everthing about his product as well as other products issues as well as my needs.
for sure the best package out there ,which would due for my needs is a dykes top ring and a o gap second from them ,this product will take almost nill break in and will take street and nitrous abuse .the reason there is little or 0 break in is that all of there rings are run in a cylinder under a specific hone patern.so all you have too due is match the pattern and volia ,seated rings.unfortantly for me in order too use the dykes top ring i need the top groove machined .so i will have too setal for ther o gap and oil ring.know all i need is too find a replacement top ring?
anyone have a original 1.5mm chromed face cima ring?

these people will make you pistons too what ever dimension you want
prices are great $122.00 a piston .
next motor i know what i will be using for piston and rings

Mugsy · Post by **Mugsy** » Wed Apr 28, 2004 5:43 pm

Mugsy wrote:Yes, but do you think its applicable to engines with convential valvetrains(e.g. not roller rockers, etc.)? If the window to break in the rings really well is the first 20 minutes, and the majority of us VW guys use the first 20 minutes breaking in the cam/lifters, then we're losing a good ring seat and potential power, right?

Thanks,
Andy

None of you veteran engine builders have any opinions on this?

Thanks,
Andy

roo · Post by **roo** » Wed Apr 28, 2004 6:04 pm

yes i'm very curious as well.

jim martin · Post by **jim martin** » Wed Apr 28, 2004 8:49 pm

here is a good take on breaking a motor in at home and at a shop with a dyno.
at a shop even thoe you are breaking a cam in with splash lubrication from a 2000 rpm spinning crank , at the same time the engine can be run under load.so you can due a few things at once.work harden cam/as well as gain enough heat and load too aid ring seating.
as with myself i did the opposite and ran at home for 2 -20 min runs at no load on a test stand then the 3rd run set timing and carbs then installed in car.probably too late for me at this time too seat the rings.

this is what i will be doing this time around,
cylinders will be honed on a machine too dimension with a 220 grit stone then finnished 4-6 passes with a 320 ball type too knock off the highest spots.
rings being used will be a child & albert oil and 0 gap second with a special ductile iron plasma cut top ring .[they have a special steel non nitrated top ring in the works,very cool for 94 mm bore soon.]
this combination should result in almost imediate sealing and a huge increase in power due too sealing ability i had previously lost as well take a lot of nitrous and street abuse.
when i talked too bruce at child @ albert about the use of total seal break in paste he damnd near killed me as well as warned me why not too use it [very interesting],he will send me along with my rings all needed info on cylinder prep/ring gaps and how too use there supplied oil on the barrles and rings.this man has alot of background and knowledge and i'm sure if anyone else has talked too or met him i'm sure they would agree ,he knows his stuff.
if anyone is interested in the part numbers of the rings and how they work out let me know.

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Thu Apr 29, 2004 4:33 am

The process you mention above is known as a "Plateau finish".... Works great. I use it and my rings seat within 45 minutes of run time, normally before the first pull!

Matt Davis · Post by **Matt Davis** » Thu Apr 29, 2004 7:02 am

MASSIVE TYPE IV wrote:The process you mention above is known as a "Plateau finish".... Works great. I use it and my rings seat within 45 minutes of run time, normally before the first pull!

Jake, the 45mins you mention, is that on an engine stand? I usually break in the rings with the motor in the car so it sees some load and some heat. You can do that on a dyno too. I'm guessing this is also how you do it? Put a load on the dyno, THEN do your pulls once the rings have seated?

Mugsy · Post by **Mugsy** » Thu Apr 29, 2004 8:37 am

Matt Davis wrote:Jake, the 45mins you mention, is that on an engine stand? I usually break in the rings with the motor in the car so it sees some load and some heat. You can do that on a dyno too. I'm guessing this is also how you do it? Put a load on the dyno, THEN do your pulls once the rings have seated?

Yeah, I had the same questions Matt. What is your process from start to finish Jake?

Thanks,
Andy

mschilling · Post by **mschilling** » Thu Apr 29, 2004 8:39 am

I've read that racers pull off an exaust pipe to check for ring break-in success after only a few laps, and if it doesn't break-in right away, you're screwed. Also honing new factory PC sets is normal according to Bergs instructions, and plenty of this type of knowlege has been documented (maybe just not on the internet).

jim martin · Post by **jim martin** » Thu Apr 29, 2004 12:20 pm

child @ albert told me the rings should be seated by the time you leave the burn out box !!!
give bruce walker a call if you have a ring issue i'm sure he will help
18006976625.
also that is a key point --HONE TOO DIMENSION-ROUND with a 220 stone and finnish with a sun and brush [320]

Matt Davis · Post by **Matt Davis** » Thu Apr 29, 2004 12:38 pm

jim martin wrote:child @ albert told me the rings should be seated by the time you leave the burn out box !!!
give bruce walker a call if you have a ring issue i'm sure he will help
18006976625.
also that is a key point --HONE TOO DIMENSION-ROUND with a 220 stone and finnish with a sun and brush [320]

Thats all I have ever done. Drive it like a raped ape and NEVER a problem.

roo · Post by **roo** » Sun May 02, 2004 11:05 am

so you guys recommend to run a fresh engine to seat the rings (heat and load) and the cam will break in itself from the same process? if this is recomended why do cam manufacturers recommend the 2000 rpm break in? and why do cams go flat from improper break in if a heat and load break-in can harden the cam?