Automatic drag transaxle

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MagOO
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Automatic drag transaxle

Post by MagOO » Fri Mar 01, 2002 2:47 am

Bill Edwards there is tons of old Datsun stuff laying about out here!

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miller brothers
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Re: Automatic drag transaxle

Post by miller brothers » Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:07 am

hi,
I know this is an old post, and was just browsing around to see what was happening with the VW automatics. I have been running a VW automatic since the 80's. So has Sid Pulliam, with the SUPER PICKLE squareback. We were doing things a little different way back then here, in North Carolina. I got tired of busting the straight drive boxes all the time. So, I went to the VW auto. First tried the 003 from the fastback/squarebacks but they would slip the clutches too much. Then went to the much heavier but stronger Vanagon automatic. They are supposed to be able to handle up to 450 hp in stock form. One problem I had was popping the CV joints at the starting line when stalling against the foot brakes. (no transbrake), just a homemade brake system using huge Mopar A-body 4 piston calipers on 914 rotors. Really heavy but worked great.
I then bought 930 Porsche joints and sway-away axles to fix that problem, but I had to fab my own 930 flanges for the transmission sides. Once the CV breakage was stopped, the next weak link came to life. The factory input shafts would twist and snap in two. ( again, they are supposed to be able to handle 450 hp !). I snapped one, once on the starting line, and and another one, when shifting into 2nd gear. I had The "Converter Shop" fab a new input shaft from 300M torsional material and haven't had a breakage since. Back when I was racing the white dune buggy with this transmission, it had a "well used" stock torque converter, which on a very good day would stall around 2800 to 3100 rpm and I could build around 14 psi of boost. Most of the time it was much less stall, and less boost. If I was able to boost it all the way up, it would launch really well, plant the wheelie bars and carry the front wheels up about 6 inches off the ground until I shifted into 3rd gear. Most of the time that usually just past the 330 mark. It has pulled the wheels back up at about 500 ft with the back tires spinning across finish line ( 1/8th mile track ) at better than 115mph. :shock: It always pulled harder in 3rd gear than it did in first or second. Now that is a wild fun ride. A little inconsistent when bracket racing, but it's a hobby, right?
Anyway, the transmission now resides in my 1952 split window sedan. It has a full tube funny car cage chassis and all fiberglass body. We call her "old blue" and she was the former "NAZI SHUTTLE" car built by "Mike Cline Race Cars" for Jimmy Hester in 1990. It has posted a 7.02 at 98 mph, running a draw thru turbo, and detuned to run only 5 psi boost. A little on the sissy side of what it used to run, but I'm not breaking parts anymore, and having fun driving it. :D If you would like to see an old video of the white buggy making a warm up pass on YouTube, search MILLER BROTHERS VW or try the link below.

Thanks to Steven at HOLESHOT PHOTOS for the picture of Blue.

Thanks for your time, and good luck in all your VW adventures.
Scott Miller
Miller Brothers Racing
Faith NC




:D
blue wheels up 3 4-05-09.jpg
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Unkl Ian
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Re: Automatic drag transaxle

Post by Unkl Ian » Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:32 pm

Scott: I understand the automatics come stock with different length axles.
Did you offset the trans, and run equal length axles, to reduce torque steer ?

I know it is a problem on FWD cars.

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miller brothers
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Re: Automatic drag transaxle

Post by miller brothers » Mon Jan 04, 2010 11:47 am

Unkl Ian wrote:Scott: I understand the automatics come stock with different length axles.
Did you offset the trans, and run equal length axles, to reduce torque steer ?

I know it is a problem on FWD cars.
hi,
no, I didn't offset the transmission, but wished I had, I think it would be beneficial to do that. If I build another car with the auto, I think I will seriously consider doing it. I have a set of the Folts style U-joint swing axles to use to offset it. I also, fabbed some flanges for the auto to use the Folts axles, but haven't installed them in anything yet.

scott

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Frallan
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Re: Automatic drag transaxle

Post by Frallan » Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:59 pm

Sorry but torque steer on a rear wheel drive?
Can it really be?
Maybe some complications due to different lengths of drive shafts.
When I put mine in to my beetle I used equal lengths European Ford Granada axles and then modified the transaxle flanges for 930 CV's and the left side on both the trans side and the flange on the stubaxle was done few inches wider.
Heavier than stock? Yes but "backyard engineering" that worked.
I ran a 2.7 TIV on the street for some years and never did I notice anything like torque steer on a front wheel drive.
I ran stock differential.
If so, on a spool car it should be nothing. Or?
Or can someone with facts shed some light on this?

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Fiatdude
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Re: Automatic drag transaxle

Post by Fiatdude » Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:56 am

I heard someone saying they had found a guy making 8" nissian converters that worked in these ????

So what is the hot setup -- Audi 5000 trans, 009 housing, 8" converter, modified for 930 CV's ?????????

70dragbug
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Re: Automatic drag transaxle

Post by 70dragbug » Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:50 am

How will the Audi 5000 trans fit up to a bus 091,etc. housing? Early in this post S.A. Hermann mentioned that they would bolt up? The Audi 5000 auto and the 5-speed have the same bellhousing.I have an Audi 44Q trans(5 Speed) that I would like to use as they are stronger than the 915 porsche boxes.If the diffhousing fits as Hermann said,I could just use a bus housing and flip the diff of the audi trans.?

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HPjunkie
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Re: Automatic drag transaxle

Post by HPjunkie » Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:33 pm

Scott, I like hearing your story its very helpful. What year vanagon shall I look for as far as a core? Also whi Is your "Convertor shop" ?

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miller brothers
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Re: Automatic drag transaxle

Post by miller brothers » Fri Aug 06, 2010 7:55 pm

HPjunkie wrote:Scott, I like hearing your story its very helpful. What year vanagon shall I look for as far as a core? Also whi Is your "Convertor shop" ?

I think the one I'm using is from a '77 Vanagon. You might have to research what years they started making the 010 transmission for the Vanagon. Just be sure to use a Type 3 flex plate with the vanagon tranny, because the type 4 wont fit a type 1 engine's crankshaft. And also, you will have to notch the back of the engine block to be able to access the torque converter bolts. Type 3 pancake engines with automatics have the block notched out. It's a simple grinding operation, and exciting too, if you should set the magnesium metal shavings on fire, like I did !! LOL woohooo... sparkle city... lmao.

As for the my converter shop, I use FLORIDA TORQUE CONVERTERS. They are awesome, just ask for Marcin, and tell him Scott Miller from North Carolina, with the VW's said hello.

If you are asking about where the input shaft was made, it was The Convertor Shop (TCS) in Arizona.

good luck
Scott

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nbturbo
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Re: Automatic drag transaxle

Post by nbturbo » Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:36 pm

A good read so far.I am building a Drag Car with an auto trans from an early Bus.It has the 003 auto,with a 4.36 diff ratio.I have bought a new full spool and bigger drive flanges from Dave Folts,but he reckons I am wasting my time with the 003-need to get a 010,which will bolt up to my cast iron diff housing.I bought an auto from a Porsche,which has bigger diameter clutch packs and 4 pinions in the gear set and looks similar in size to the VW auto-but the PCD of the 4 mounting bolts is way out(was worth a try) .I have built an Oval Beetle daily driver with a 2.7lt Type 4 engine and have fitted a Type 3 auto to it(with a 3.67 diff ratio) and love the way it drives.I had the auto modified with the clutch hubs machined to take more discs and a 3,000 rpm convertor built for it.I have taken it drag racing and I drive it like a manual and it really snaps into each gear change.I have 48mm Throttle Bodies on the engine-so just off idle it's starting to work hard,which seems to work really well with the convertor.The bloke who modified my Type 3 auto,does a lot of auto rebuilds for VW Busses that have the Subi engine conversion,so need to be able to handle way more torque.I have a 2.6lt Autocraft engine for my Drag Car and have redrilled a Type 3 flex plate hub with the 8 holes to suit.I will drill a hole in the engine back plate to get at the flex plate bolts.The Type 4 in my Oval was easy-just used the hole already drilled in the top of the crankcase by No. 3 cylinder.I will be pulling my trans to pieces soon to start the rebuild(after I can get hold of an 010 trans)so will keep you posted if you are interested.Have got the engine apart at the moment fitting some Pro Series heads,a Turbo cam and make a new exhaust system.

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miller brothers
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Re: Automatic drag transaxle

Post by miller brothers » Sat Aug 07, 2010 9:06 am

nbturbo wrote:I will be pulling my trans to pieces soon to start the rebuild(after I can get hold of an 010 trans)so will keep you posted if you are interested.

yes, by all means keep us posted on your progress. I have been racing with a Vanagon automatic for 20+ years and am always loving it when someone else tries new things with them. I always love hearing the tires chirp when shifting into second and third gears. They are really good transmissions, but they do take away a lot of usable horsepower if ET is your primary goal. I just always wanted to do things different. LOL

Anyway, good luck in your adventures...

Scott

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nbturbo
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Re: Automatic drag transaxle

Post by nbturbo » Sun Aug 08, 2010 4:49 am

Thanks Scott-I like to try different things as well.I was told by a lot of blokes that a Type 3 auto will not fit into a Type 1 floorpan successfully-so I gave it a try and it works really well.I have read some of your posts on different Forums about your experience with the Auto Trans-good reading.I was in the States last October and went to the drags at Fontana.Tracked down Hobi and had a really good chat about his car,which really clinched it for me to go auto in my Drag Car.Lets keep this subject alive.

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miller brothers
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Re: Automatic drag transaxle

Post by miller brothers » Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:57 pm

Just strolling thru, wondering if there was any new stuff about automatics.

Scott

Miller Brothers Racing
Faith, NC

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Piledriver
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Re: Automatic drag transaxle

Post by Piledriver » Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:24 pm

I don't know about "new" but I was wondering if anyone tried a "clutch-flite" setup on a VW auto trans.

I was thinking with a decent hydraulic TO setup and a Black Magic type disc you could ease the engagement enough to avoid snapping everything ;-)
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

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miller brothers
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Re: Automatic drag transaxle

Post by miller brothers » Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:02 am

Piledriver wrote:I don't know about "new" but I was wondering if anyone tried a "clutch-flite" setup on a VW auto trans.

I was thinking with a decent hydraulic TO setup and a Black Magic type disc you could ease the engagement enough to avoid snapping everything ;-)
I have a Clutchflite transmission (made by Fairbanks) that I bought new 25+ yrs ago when I was racing MOPARS...It's still new, I have never used it. I did mount a 440 bell housing to it, but never put it in anything. If I build a front engine VW car, it will find it's way into that project for sure.

As for the VW vanagon tranny I am using now, even though it launches great with the transbrake and all, I have often thought about trying to modify it to use a clutch, similiar to the clutchflite. All it takes is a bit of money, (alot) and a dream, (big) and a good machinist friend if you cant do it yourself. ( i do all my own machine work )

I always did the silly things that no one else would do, (way back when,) and I enjoyed the look on the faces when after they told me that it would never work, it worked rather well.

I look foward to seeing more about this subject.
have a great day to all vw lovers.

Scott Miller
Faith, NC

MILLER BROTHERS RACING

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