Automatic drag transaxle

Do you like to go fast? Well get out of that stocker and build a hipo motor for your VW. Come here to talk with others who like to drive fast.

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Tom Simon

Automatic drag transaxle

Post by Tom Simon » Thu Aug 09, 2001 4:19 pm

Crazy: I've talked with Jim Linkert (Nicole's dad) a couple of times. They use a stocker, with a modified torque converter. So does Bud Whitfeild and John Martin (Sacramento regulars, all running type 4 automatics) Neither of them are making the kind of power I'm talking about. Nicole's car weighs 1000lbs or so, they run 12's with a tired old stock type 4.
Ray; You sound like a guy that's "been around the block a time or two", is what I am proposing sound feasible? With the more recent information I've gotten, and for my application,it really sounds like the type 4 auto box is the way to go. I also think it will require a bunch of sorting out. Manuel valve body, a thousand dollar torque converter (maybe even have to buy more than one to settle on an optimum stall speed), Folts axle kit, custom offset tranny mount set-up, and a bunch of R&D. Can you confirm that a bus center section can be mated to an '85-'92 Audi turbo trans unit as mentioned by the gentalman from S.Africa?

ray greenwood
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Automatic drag transaxle

Post by ray greenwood » Thu Aug 09, 2001 6:34 pm

What really seems to be interesting, the more I dig into Audi...the more I really realize that the type 4, the engine /transaxle and the 914 and 412/411 in entirety...are Audi. More precisely..NSU who are one of the four original families of Auto Union...that made up Audi. I would be willing to bet, that because of the modular nature of the type 003/type four transaxle, an Audi auto unit could probably bolt right up. The type 3 and four unit are identical. They have different bell housing attachments (removable). The bus is so similar, that it could probably bolt up. I Have just recently discovered that the parts in my type 4 four speed are some of the same ones in an audi 013 in the early Audi 5000. The bolt pattern of the Audi auto, where the auto section attaches to the differential section is the same. You may have to clearance the sealing flange, but I doubt it. It is down to the input shaft size...bet dollars its the same. Audi has always had a lot more universal parts sizing in its technology. The auto boxes from europe in the late 60's and 70's got a bad rap for failing quickly (about 70K or 6-8 years). This is not really due to weakness. The auto section and valve body is basically a Borg Warner design. The cast iron carrier in the differential section is a work of art. The week spot was in seal materials. The seal between the auto section casting and the diff unit was of a compromise material...it wasn't perfect for either hypoid oil or Dexron II fluid. They would get hard, crack and leak ,due to miles or age ...transfer fluids...and waste everything in one ugly shot. Common practice is to pull the trans at 70k and put new seals on it...cheap! Then go on for another 70K. I'll let you know what I find out about shaft size. Ray

GDRBO
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Automatic drag transaxle

Post by GDRBO » Fri Aug 10, 2001 9:50 am

I believe you will find they are the same. This opinion is based on the fact that they have been using Audi 5000 gearbox sections on type 2 diffs in the desert for years. They do seem to be stronger for whatever reason. There are two ratios in the bus diffs, I don't have solid info as yet but at least one seems to be about 4.40 to 1. The other may be either higher or lower.

HotStreetVw
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Joined: Fri May 04, 2001 3:01 am

Automatic drag transaxle

Post by HotStreetVw » Sat Aug 11, 2001 7:00 pm

Everybody take another hit...

What about a fwd tranny with the engine mounted like a rwd car(inline)?
Flip the r&p, make some goofy adapter, whalaa

vwricks

Automatic drag transaxle

Post by vwricks » Sun Oct 21, 2001 9:26 pm

Hey John C., anymore updates on your buddies auto?

Tony C.

Automatic drag transaxle

Post by Tony C. » Mon Oct 22, 2001 9:44 am

Wow,
I see this really has been discussed. Is there any more updates on transbrake/convertor issues?

PapaG
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Automatic drag transaxle

Post by PapaG » Wed Feb 13, 2002 10:26 pm

Anything new on the Auto Tranny?

Tom Simon

Automatic drag transaxle

Post by Tom Simon » Wed Feb 13, 2002 10:40 pm

I don't have anything new. In fact, my time has been occupied working on the new Fastback, with a 4-speed bus box and Folts axle kit. After I get this thing figured out, maybe I'll start thinking about the auto again.

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bill edwards
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Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2001 3:01 am

Automatic drag transaxle

Post by bill edwards » Thu Feb 14, 2002 7:28 pm

what good timing for this bump. i just picked up my vanagon auto with the folts spool. unfortunituly i dont know squat about them except from whats ahead of this post which is a lot of info. this box was modified for manual shifting but anyone have a guess on which pattern forward or reverse?
also what splines does folts use metric or sae or is there a diff? also does anyone have a flex plate or 2 for sale.

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Muffler Mike
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Automatic drag transaxle

Post by Muffler Mike » Fri Feb 15, 2002 4:04 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bill edwards:
also does anyone have a flex plate or 2 for sale.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You may want to call Folts back on that issue and see if he has any set ups already done.
But for some reason, I think you my have to make or have some one custom make one.
Every time I stop by EMS, I kind of poke my nose around the engine room and see whats going on. And sure enough, for hobi?s next converter. They are making a new flex plate just for it. And they had to make the last one too. And now they are going to try a modified Saturn converter. (and cross their fingers on the stall speed, and the last I heard, Dick is trying to make it so the converter can be opened and closed back up with out cutting and welding ever time to make changes, and so the converter doesn?t get smaller and smaller and pull away from the input shaft, Given enough time, I think Dick can actually widdle a complete motor out of a chunk of steel, example of that is the 50% steel heads run on Chihro?s SS car.)
Unfortunatly, these one off items are not cheap to have made. No money in it if you cant sell it for the time put into it. Those might be the type of items that you get told, ?you don?t have enough money?
If you have a little time, the next time I go down, I can see if Hobi would want to get rid of his old one if it hasn?t been cut up to be used on his new flanged crank. (old set up was the standard 8 dowel)
Seems like I remember seeing something in the chassis shop catalog, maybe it was the center hub to make your own stuff. Might want to look in there direction as well.
Maybe you can be the first on your block to get a converter to work at X stall.
The problem the guys at EMS seem to run into is no one has any experience at putting VW type hp to a light car and a high stall. And when this is another one off item for a converter shop, things move slow.
But im sure time will prevail.
Any other input?

Hay Tom, gona get that fast back ready before the first race???????

------------------
Muffler Mike
www.MufflerMike.com

PapaG
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Automatic drag transaxle

Post by PapaG » Fri Feb 15, 2002 6:24 pm

Mike:
I would have thought the convertor would be the easy part. When I was into the V8 thing I uset to get a local shop to do mine.
I can see the flex plate being a issue, and of course the diff and clutches.
May be I am just used to non VW automatics...

------------------
Richard
Lost in Texas
68 Chopped Top Squareback
69 Fastback Auto

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bill edwards
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Automatic drag transaxle

Post by bill edwards » Tue Feb 26, 2002 11:27 pm

i finally found an old hvw that had some info on the auto. december 1988 had a bit from a company called keiser manufacturing where they mate an audi
case with one of their diff sections , all of their stuff was re-done in cromemoly but they said that art carr performance transmissions in fountian valley ca. were doing the converters in either a vw 11" with 3000 stall or one of carrs's 8" with a 5000 stall. no price was mentioned on the converters.
Image

merfin78
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Automatic drag transaxle

Post by merfin78 » Wed Feb 27, 2002 12:11 am

in the 60s we ran a hydro trans in one of our AA GAS cars and it had a converter that split and was held together with bolts to the flywheel you could change the vanes easy and adjust the stal where you wanted these can in oldsmobiles but I think you could build a converter on the same idear

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Lo cash lester
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Automatic drag transaxle

Post by Lo cash lester » Wed Feb 27, 2002 12:26 am

I just looked at this for the firet time. The funny thing is that a good friend, Sherman Watkins of S&S VW, has some knee problems and is working on a Bus trans for his drag car. He has already gotten a stock tired one in the low 8's-1/8th mile with a 1914 turbo in a sedan running street tires. He was supposed to go to the track with his rebuilt/new converter setup tonight. I couldn't be there so I'll have to give you an update later. His plan is to run his 2275cc turbo setup w/this in his regular race car. It has a best of 6.56@107mph-1/8th. I give an update as soon as possible.

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Lester Chatley
www.locashracing.org

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bill edwards
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Automatic drag transaxle

Post by bill edwards » Wed Feb 27, 2002 9:08 pm

thats the area that the auto i now own came from. i was told 2 of them were built in that area but i didnt get the other guys name. i'm considering putting this trans in a tube frame buggy just to sort it out instead of hacking a decent pan up to make it work. the major draw back aside from the lack of real input on the auto trans is the d#@! folts axle set-up $1099.00 erco price. i had considered using the old datsun 1/2 shaft deal that the old super stockers were using in the 70's but not sure if any would still be around the bone yards. Image

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