Serious Weber Fire Hazard
- FJCamper
- Moderator
- Posts: 2901
- Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:19 pm
Serious Weber Fire Hazard
A friend of RetroRacing was recently at the Lime Rock Historics running his Crusader Vee Sports Racer (VW Type 1 engine) ...
He had filled his 8-gallon fuel cell prior to his group group race. The car started running poorly while on track. He came in and actually ran out of fuel on his way to the paddock. Thinking maybe he had forgotten to refuel, after the car cooled down he refueled the car again and checked for leaks. Then he found fuel gushing out of the base of one of his carbs. A quick look divulged the missing plug.
The carb is an IDF 44, although IDA and DCOE among others also have these lead plugs.
The lead plug is installed at the factory during the manufacturing process. It covers the internal passages to the fuel bowl and the hole was necessary for casting purposes.
Other racers at the event had never heard of this occurrence but a web search revealed that it is not that uncommon. Tangerine racing (Porsche 914) indicates the fix for this is to drill out the plugs, tap and install 3/8 24 tpi set screws and sealant.
It should be noted this car has always been stored indoors in a heated garage, and has always run race fuel. So pump gas/ethanol issues with water and corrosion are likely not the problem.
Since this occurrence dumped approximately 6 gallons of fuel directly on the hot headers over a 3-4 minute period everyone that runs Weber carbs should be made aware of this. Luckily there was no fire!
Check your Webers!
FJC
- 4agedub
- Posts: 654
- Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:50 am
Re: Serious Weber Fire Hazard
You were lucky!!!
In 2009 at Kyalami we had exactly the same thing happen on the #71 beetle.... but the end result was a little worse than yours. The plug came out some time during the race ( I did smell some fuel fumes, but did not think much off it) , and on the cool down lap the thing actually caught fire. I immediately switched off the fuel pump and drove straight to the nearest marshal point where the fire was put out. The foam air filters also did not help at all.
In 2009 at Kyalami we had exactly the same thing happen on the #71 beetle.... but the end result was a little worse than yours. The plug came out some time during the race ( I did smell some fuel fumes, but did not think much off it) , and on the cool down lap the thing actually caught fire. I immediately switched off the fuel pump and drove straight to the nearest marshal point where the fire was put out. The foam air filters also did not help at all.
VW Beetle 1303 EJ20T Subarugears Circuit Racer
VW Beetle 2332cc 200hp N/A Circuit Racer
VW Beetle 1969 2666cc Turbo Road Toy
VW Beetle 2332cc 200hp N/A Circuit Racer
VW Beetle 1969 2666cc Turbo Road Toy
-
- Posts: 85
- Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:12 pm
Re: Serious Weber Fire Hazard
FJC & 4agebug,
Thanks for sharing your experience.
It seems from a quick search on the net, that the plugs that came loose, are 'black'.
What material are these plugs made from? I just looked at mine, and they seem to be made of aluminum.
Thanks for sharing your experience.
It seems from a quick search on the net, that the plugs that came loose, are 'black'.
What material are these plugs made from? I just looked at mine, and they seem to be made of aluminum.
- Marc
- Moderator
- Posts: 23741
- Joined: Thu May 23, 2002 12:01 am
Re: Serious Weber Fire Hazard
I just put a blob of epoxy over each softplug.
- Tony Z
- Posts: 1244
- Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2000 12:01 am
Re: Serious Weber Fire Hazard
same thing happened to me with 36IDFs on the street.
Someone pulled me over in the rain and told me my car was spilling fuel and leaving rainbows on the tarmac.
Plugged it with epoxy and never thought about it again until now
Someone pulled me over in the rain and told me my car was spilling fuel and leaving rainbows on the tarmac.
Plugged it with epoxy and never thought about it again until now
- FJCamper
- Moderator
- Posts: 2901
- Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:19 pm
Re: Serious Weber Fire Hazard
Hi 4AgeDub,
I am really sorry about your fire. I do have a suggestion, however, on your air cleaners. Use a slightly taller paper filter. The paper element on good brand name products is flame resistant. The need to be taller gives you more space above the velocity stack intakes. You need about an inch if not more of clearance for the best airflow.
I don't know what alloy the plugs are. Stateside, we just call them lead plugs no matter what kind of carb they are in. They are probably not lead, but might be zinc if not actually aluminum.
Marc's epoxy method should be good enough to hold in a plug. I've never done that, but it would be the first thing to come to my mind.
I'll bet our friend with the Crusader sports racer gets threaded plugs soon!
FJC
I am really sorry about your fire. I do have a suggestion, however, on your air cleaners. Use a slightly taller paper filter. The paper element on good brand name products is flame resistant. The need to be taller gives you more space above the velocity stack intakes. You need about an inch if not more of clearance for the best airflow.
I don't know what alloy the plugs are. Stateside, we just call them lead plugs no matter what kind of carb they are in. They are probably not lead, but might be zinc if not actually aluminum.
Marc's epoxy method should be good enough to hold in a plug. I've never done that, but it would be the first thing to come to my mind.
I'll bet our friend with the Crusader sports racer gets threaded plugs soon!
FJC
- 4agedub
- Posts: 654
- Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:50 am
Re: Serious Weber Fire Hazard
FJC, we have since then managed to find some proper filter elements and picked up about 5hp in the process. The only reason we used those socks were because nothing else was available at that time.
From what I remember those plugs are very similar to lead, we simply made an aluminium plug, pressed it into the carb and epoxied them all in. Since then no further problems.
From what I remember those plugs are very similar to lead, we simply made an aluminium plug, pressed it into the carb and epoxied them all in. Since then no further problems.
VW Beetle 1303 EJ20T Subarugears Circuit Racer
VW Beetle 2332cc 200hp N/A Circuit Racer
VW Beetle 1969 2666cc Turbo Road Toy
VW Beetle 2332cc 200hp N/A Circuit Racer
VW Beetle 1969 2666cc Turbo Road Toy
- MegaRookie
- Posts: 146
- Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:18 pm
Re: Serious Weber Fire Hazard
Hi FJC,
I'm busy with restoring a pair of 40mm DLRA carbs for my 2 ltr type 4, and after cleaning it, I found out that one of the previous owners try to fix (or remove? I dunno) this plug. Is it the same one as with the Webers? (it's on the choke side of the carb)
I checked if it leaks, and it doesn't look like it, but I don't want to try it in the car. Thats why I'd like to replace the plug, and I allready checked the tangerine website, but I couldn't find it over there. Does any one else have an adress where to get some kind of threaded plugs for this application?
Thanks! Mark
I'm busy with restoring a pair of 40mm DLRA carbs for my 2 ltr type 4, and after cleaning it, I found out that one of the previous owners try to fix (or remove? I dunno) this plug. Is it the same one as with the Webers? (it's on the choke side of the carb)
I checked if it leaks, and it doesn't look like it, but I don't want to try it in the car. Thats why I'd like to replace the plug, and I allready checked the tangerine website, but I couldn't find it over there. Does any one else have an adress where to get some kind of threaded plugs for this application?
Thanks! Mark
-
- Posts: 7400
- Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2001 12:01 am
Re: Serious Weber Fire Hazard
Do you have a part number for a paper filter to fit standard IDF oval 3.5" tall rigs?FJCamper wrote:Hi 4AgeDub,
Use a slightly taller paper filter.
FJC
Steve
My Baja Build
My Baja Build
- FJCamper
- Moderator
- Posts: 2901
- Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:19 pm
Re: Serious Weber Fire Hazard
Hi Megarookie,
The plugs on any of the Dells or Webers are not spare parts. I have never seen one for sale by the dealer.
As you've been reading, guys make their own replacements.
It looks like on yours someone was fixing a leaky plug.
Drill the center of the plug, thread in a big sheet metal screw, and pull the plug out. Then tap the hole for the best set-screw size you can find, and epoxy it in.
FJC
The plugs on any of the Dells or Webers are not spare parts. I have never seen one for sale by the dealer.
As you've been reading, guys make their own replacements.
It looks like on yours someone was fixing a leaky plug.
Drill the center of the plug, thread in a big sheet metal screw, and pull the plug out. Then tap the hole for the best set-screw size you can find, and epoxy it in.
FJC