Newbie is building it s very first all out Drag engine

Do you like to go fast? Well get out of that stocker and build a hipo motor for your VW. Come here to talk with others who like to drive fast.
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samotorsport
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:57 am

Newbie is building it s very first all out Drag engine

Post by samotorsport »

Hey guys, I am currently building a 1835ccm Drag engine

AS41 casing
VW crankshaft, prepared for Dragracing
CB conrods
Mahle 1835ccm Kit Cylinder Pistons
CB 2300 camshaft
1:4 rockers
CB 044 super Pro Heads (44 x 37.5 valves)
48 IDA Weber Scat VW intake manifold
MSD distributor.
additional Oilsump

Therefore I need some advise from some of the more experienced engine builders:
First of all how do I get the inside of the engine casing really clean? I thought about soda blasting or jet washing with warm water and soap , what is your experience?
The outside is glas pearl blasted but not the inside because I don t wan t to damage the bearing seats.

How much oil pressure does one of these engines need ? I found some adjustable rear oil pressure piston to adjust oil pressure , is this worth it ?
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp ... C10%2D5389

How much clearence has to be given between the valves and the pistons?
At a C/R of +/- 12:1 theres no way they pass each other , so I need to mill some valve pockets into the pistons, but I don t know how deep I have to go, how much clearences is required?

Of course the engine is going to get Full Flow and a HD Oilpump as well.

I am happy for any advise or tip you can give me helping me building my very first all out engine .
Thanks in advance
Best regards
Sam
buildabiggerboxer
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Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:50 pm

Re: Newbie is building it s very first all out Drag engine

Post by buildabiggerboxer »

Why only 1835? A small motor is harder than a big motor in many respects, make it bigger and it will be in front of were you will want to be anyway after a short while, you need to read up on the mouse motor build thread over in cal lounge, as it's not possible to get a specialised tutorial on all out motors, walk before running and all that, but as to your question on p/v clearances, .0100" on exhaust, and .080" on inlet is about there, depends, depends, depends, it's up to you to calculate the pocket depth in the piston, there isn't a guide as I said, you may need special pistons with a safe pocket depth ready to go, again, a bigger motor often requires less work up there as compression is plentifully on big guns, the clearance is checked on the overlap cycle. Enjoying it all is important. Normal internal cleaning is done with steam pressure, some folk use auto steamers, some use the kitchen dishwasher to very good effect,
I use rifle bore brushes down the gallery's after any machine work.
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samotorsport
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Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:57 am

Re: Newbie is building it s very first all out Drag engine

Post by samotorsport »

Thanks very much for your reply,
The 1835 is because I am running a real oldschool car from the 70s , it has been build in the 70s and raced like this with some improvements up to today, therefore I wanna build a engine which suits the car, over here in Europe there is a bunch of guys running real oldschool bugs with anything from 1700-2000 ccm engines, enjoying it and having fun without sequential gearboxes , parachutes etc.
My major concern about the clearence was how this changes at high rpm and high temp, this is why I asked for some "values" and ideas... Thanks for your tip about the clearence, this gives me already a approx. value.
The dishwasher is an idea , not knowing what my wife thinks about it :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
buildabiggerboxer
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Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:50 pm

Re: Newbie is building it s very first all out Drag engine

Post by buildabiggerboxer »

Ah, OK, old Skool is good, but do read the mouse motor build on cal look forum, use as light as possible good quality on all parts, especially valve train, then perfect balance it all, oil pressure rule is 10 psi for every 1 thousand rpm, but in reality, 50 psi at 7000 hot is about all most ever see, i run 20/60 oil in races and get a solid 55 psi at 7000 hot with 32 mm oil pump, over pressure while cold can occur with those adjustable/shimmed relief valves, berg relief valve pump cover is a good idea.
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samotorsport
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Re: Newbie is building it s very first all out Drag engine

Post by samotorsport »

Thanks a lot , i will read the thread you mentioned. This 10 psi per 1000 is a good hint, thanks a lot.
To prevent overpressure when cold my idea was to preheat the oil to 40 degree Celsius with some external powersource and a heater element inside the oilsump, on top of this I would have a preheated engine at the start with good oilflow straight from the start without giving already to much heat to the other components like cylinder heads as I am running without any fan . But adjustable oil pressure piston is a must I guess ass the original pistons keeps the pressure much lower I guess
The parts I have up to now are all of good quality (CB performance, original reworked VW , RLR and Udo Becker) and will be balanced together before assembling .
subwoofer
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Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:14 pm

Re: Newbie is building it s very first all out Drag engine

Post by subwoofer »

samotorsport wrote: The dishwasher is an idea , not knowing what my wife thinks about it :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
What she does not know will not harm her.... :mrgreen:

Dishwasher detergent causes certain aluminium alloys to go black, this is only a cosmetic problem.
Joachim
- Fia, '14 Fiesta Titanium
- Frk Jensen, '74 Jensen-Healey
- Kengu, '90 Caravelle C Syncro

Diesel is good for cleaning parts...
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samotorsport
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Re: Newbie is building it s very first all out Drag engine

Post by samotorsport »

Yeah right ;) haha
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samotorsport
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Re: Newbie is building it s very first all out Drag engine

Post by samotorsport »

Ok I tried with a hot water jet washer and some good cleaning stuff, still not happy.
So I think about soda blasting or dry-ice. Preferably the camshaft bearing seats have to be done as well due to slight oxidation.
What would you guys recommend ?

Another question about the oil galley plugs, I ve pulled them, except the long one with the reducer for #4 bearing, now I gonna tap them 1/4 1/8 and 3/8 NPT , what material of caps is suitable ?
I can get them in steel for a good price in a 100 each pack, but not sure about if steel is suitable. Stainless are expensive as ...
Aluminium is unavailable.
Any good advise or experiences ?
Thanks in advance
Best regards
Sam
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Piledriver
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Re: Newbie is building it s very first all out Drag engine

Post by Piledriver »

I don't know about Europe but brass plugs are available cheap and easily here and match the expansion of a mag or aluminum block much closer than SS, so less likely to develop a leak later.

DO pull and replace the stepped plug in the nose, 1/16" pipe works best for that one, hard to find but exists.
There is no need for that stepped restriction, the bearings are the restriction.
Just put a sand seal in it, you will probably want some sort of case evac anyway.

Just run the dishwasher empty a time or two with the detergent after you are done, no one needs to know...

Light oxide film (discoloration only) hurts nothing on mag or aluminum, actually is a protective layer.
(Think of it as natural anodization)
Wipe some oil on it and move on.

A forged + counterweighted crank is still required for T1s (welded stocker) the case has a very short life expectancy at >5K without it.
This has little to do with how well everything is balanced, the stock crank has serious harmonics at ~5500

They mostly solved that on the WBX cranks with more mass.
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
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