of oil pumps and aluminum

Tom Simon · Post by **Tom Simon** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:02 am

Piledriver wrote: The o-rings shouldn't get torn up IF you deburr/polish/relieve the opening and related ports, and grease it up a hair

O-rings like very smooth surfaces. O-rings die on sharp edges....

If your experience shows that the oil pump o-rings do not get torn up, then please tell me how you made that work for you. My experience has been the o-rings get pinched and tear in a well fitting mag case. After ruining 4 o-rings I gave up

Post by **Piledriver** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:45 am

If you have smooth/polished block surfaces AND the blocks entry/port holes have radiused edges, AND the o-ring groove has sufficient clearance to allow it to compress properly, it shouldn't cut, assuming it's lubed.

The o-ring only has to project ~.010 to work, perhaps less if the case>pump fit is truly ~zero.
(the specs differ depending on how it's assembled)

I have had mine in and out a few times, took awhile to get right. My pump>block fit is loose anyway, so it might be easier for me.

You might need to go down one size on the o-ring so it doesn't "squish" out a loop into the ports. Should be a good stretch on fit.

I believe the o-rings I'm using are 1/16" (.0625") cross section. (1 size, ie 2-1xx) and I'm using .100 wide grooves .040 deep to give them some side play to allow them to squish. How deep you cut sets your free projection, and depends on the hole the pump is going into... T1 blocks might be tighter.

(all probably not worth doing unless you have an adjustable cam gear/washer setup, or expect to have to R&R the oil pump for some reason)

Tom Simon · Post by **Tom Simon** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:14 pm

Piledriver wrote:If you have smooth/polished block surfaces AND the blocks entry/port holes have radiused edges, AND the o-ring groove has sufficient clearance to allow it to compress properly, it shouldn't cut, assuming it's lubed.

The o-ring only has to project ~.010 to work, perhaps less if the case>pump fit is truly ~zero.
(the specs differ depending on how it's assembled)

I have had mine in and out a few times, took awhile to get right. My pump>block fit is loose anyway, so it might be easier for me.

You might need to go down one size on the o-ring so it doesn't "squish" out a loop into the ports. Should be a good stretch on fit.

I believe the o-rings I'm using are 1/16" (.0625") cross section. (1 size, ie 2-1xx) and I'm using .100 wide grooves .040 deep to give them some side play to allow them to squish. How deep you cut sets your free projection, and depends on the hole the pump is going into... T1 blocks might be tighter.)

The o-rings I chose were bigber size (instead of small stretch-to-fit ones, nothing 'on-size' is off the shelf) I just followed the Parker o-ring book's dimensions... it looks like you cut the groove to what works

My cases do fit factory tight, but I wouldn't expect they are more than .002" smaller than the worst oversize cases I've heard about. I'm guessing your o-rings were a better chioce than mine

Post by **Piledriver** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 8:18 pm

Correction to my earlier post---

The o-rings i'm using are "zero" size--- ~1/16" cross section, 2-035, 036, or 037v75, can't remember which I ended up with.
(I believe Berg uses the same ones from memory)

I ended up making the grooves a touch deeper still as it proved ~impossible to get the pump back out once it sat overnight and the oil drained off.

(Didn't cut the o-rings, just couldn't pry it back out w/o dorking something up unless I split the case, still in mock-up mode fortunately)

Post by **Piledriver** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:46 pm

AJ Sims offers oringed pumps now.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/ ... ?id=371920

gcorrado · Post by **gcorrado** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:09 pm

Gene Berg pumps are aluminum Schadek, O-ringed, and HARD anodized.

http://www.geneberg.com/cat.php?cPath=5_119_2735

Basically the same as AJ's, but hard anodized as well.

Post by **Piledriver** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:36 am

gcorrado wrote:Gene Berg pumps are aluminum Schadek, O-ringed, and HARD anodized.

http://www.geneberg.com/cat.php?cPath=5_119_2735

Basically the same as AJ's, but hard anodized as well.

Very nice pumps too.

stkrmtr · Post by **stkrmtr** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:47 pm

When you decide what size o-ring your going to use email me at shawnshelton@hotmail and I'll give you the specs to cut it to for a static seal. I would suggest using a viton o-ring and I would use a one or 2 series o-ring (one that starts with a 1-- r 2--) viton will last longer and won't get hard from heat-chemicals -SS
if you go to hercules hydraulics they have more info -I'll give you the o-rings for free as most places have a min. of 10$ order and rings are usually .15 or less. I used to sell semi conductor o-rings that were 3000$ and up with an id of 6".

TeamFRD · Post by **TeamFRD** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 7:56 pm

Is there an alternative to the o-ring?
Such as using a sealant between the case and pump?

Post by **Piledriver** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:37 pm

TeamFRD wrote:Is there an alternative to the o-ring?
Such as using a sealant between the case and pump?

You can control where the oring goes...

Mark the canuck · Post by **Mark the canuck** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:20 pm

I've used Berg covers many times in the past but the cost and shipping is just a PITA to me. I've been using the EMPI steel covers and as long as you true them up they're fine.

Post by **Piledriver** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 8:00 pm

Mark the canuck wrote:I've used Berg covers many times in the past but the cost and shipping is just a PITA to me. I've been using the EMPI steel covers and as long as you true them up they're fine.

True, I have one of those myself, it wasn't QUITE as bad as I expected.
(Took awhile to clean up on the lapping block)

BusBoys (Or bus depot?) also sells a steel one from somewhere...

The stock, factory T1 cover works GREAT if it will clean up.

Jake also sells some very nice tool steel wear plates for this app.
I would have gone with that if it had been available when I needed one.

TeamFRD wrote:Is there an alternative to the o-ring?
Such as using a sealant between the case and pump?

FJCamper made a suggestion in another thread this came up in that makes sense, basically use carefully cut out aluminum foil as a "gasket" around the pump body to fill the gap. (There are many thicknesses of foil...) I'm thinking you could "stick it on" with a very thin wipe of Permatex#3 (perhaps thinned) and trim with an Exacto knife once stuck.

Would never survive being slid in or out, but I can see how it could work.

kuleinc · Post by **kuleinc** » Mon May 18, 2009 1:42 pm

I have a 30 mm oil pump (I believe steel, maybe alluminum, not sure, been in too long) with a berg full flow cover on it. I plugged the pump myself for full flow, and I have had it in and out more than once, and I can't get the damn thing to stop seeping. I put permatex on the pump to block gasket and I THINK that works fine, but its to cover to pump that seems to leak. Are you guys just using the paper gaskets dry or what? I've been putting a thin coat of permatex on, but I guess its clogging up the suction ring? Suggestions?

Mark the canuck · Post by **Mark the canuck** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:49 am

You can NOT clog the ring.
I still use just a hair of RTV, a bit between your fingers enough to "soak" into the paper and then remove ALL of the excess.

Also I true every cover and pump on a piece of glass with sandpaper.

Post by **Tom Notch** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:11 pm

Me, too.

and I treat the gasket the same way.
\

Mark the canuck wrote:
Also I true every cover and pump on a piece of glass with sandpaper.