Vanagon auto transmission???

[TxGasser]

Has anyone had any experence with a Vanagon auto transmission?
If so can you tell me the pro's and con's of your experence?

Thanks,

[raygreenwood]

Experience in what way...performance....problems...repair?
I have worked a decent amount on the type 3 and 4 automatics...and they are virtually identical in teh auto section, just a larger final drive carrier and different gearing. Same design and maker. Ray

[Piledriver]

They are essentially as bullet proof as any good automatic, and will almost certainly take more HP out of the box than any sane person would run on the street, esp vs a VW manual trans.

Ray has in the past pointed out an issue in the sealing between the final drive and the auto part, if gear oil and ATF mix , Bad Things Happen.

Expect a 10-15% MPG hit vs a manual, like most any non-lockup converter auto.

[TxGasser]

Just looking for imput? What the problems were in what year models, were they ran with a air cooled or water motor? Torque?? Do any members think this is a good choice? How bad was the seal problem?

[Piledriver]

They are all pretty bulletproof, and will probably take more of a beating than any manual box. look for low mileage/ smell the oil, just like any used auto, they can be abused, I suppose.

The seals should be thought of as preventive maintenance, I need to do it myself RSN on my 88.

It doesn't LOOK like rocket science (in the manual) , but I haven't done it yet myself.

The later autos used in the Vanagon look bigger to me, pretty sure they are. They also don't use a vacuum modulator, they use throttle position for shift logic like a Golf, and thus a different throttle linkage. I feel that's a much better setup anyway. I'm pretty sure they can fit in a Bay with effort.

The T3s and early bays IIRC had the type 003, the later one is the 090(?) pretty sure the 411/412s had the 003s, usually w/a much taller final drive. (and T4 flanges)

IIRC the Audi 5000s/turbos took the same later automatic trans can (or they were compatible/HD upgrade) as did most VWs of the same era.(different diff sections, same trans end)

[raygreenwood]

Piledriver is spot on with all of that. Parts are still available for almost total rebuild. Because these ...and all automatics are "hysdraulic" in operation, it pays to simply strip it down when you get it and look for wear, sludge and change all of the seals you can reach.
May as well get new clutches and friction linings as well.


The things that really wear are mainly some seals, teh valve body gets gummy and teh oil pumps can wear and ALL autos are egenarlly out ofproper shift point adjustment due to pumping and pressure losses in teh valve body and oil pump over the years.
Thats not ugly....its adjustable.

On these trannys....the final drive and the autobox section have two differnt oil types. There are a couple seals between the two sections. They fail...sooner or later...always. By factory standards they were good for 7 years or 70k miles.

The least I would do to one of these is change the final drive seals, clean out the autobox and change gaskets, adjust the bands and get a couple gauges and do the pressure/driving adjustments in the book. Shouldrun for years. Ray

[oilhammer]

The Vanagons all got the same '010' auto trans section as was used starting in the A1 series cars way back in 1974 (Golf/Rabbit) and that transmission (bolted to a different final drive of course) was also used in all the longitudinal cars later on (Audi 5000, Quantum, etc.) as well as the Porsche 944. It is a pretty good transmission.

It is NOT the same as the 003 3 speed autobox used in the Type 3, Type 4, and early ('73 through '75) Type 2. It is very similar. Its main difference is that the 003 used a vacuum modulator to regulate gear changes whereas the 010 (and the 090, 087, etc.) variants use a throttle valve to regulate gear changes.

The 010 transmission is VERY simple to overhaul, and it was used up through '93 in this country, on the Cabriolet.

Only problems are leaks: these units hold VERY little ATF, so check them often! and the above mentioned fluid mix which is usually more harmful to the final drive and not the transmission itself.

In a Vanagon, they sap a lot of power and make the already thirsty engine even thirstier. Only 3 gears, and no lockup, and a very high stall speed convertor. They are pretty durable though, despite being tiny.

[Tom in PA]

any thoughts on how they'd work in an off road buggy? I've been contemplating it for years now.

Tom

[oilhammer]

Probably OK, but you would want to find one from a water-cooled Vanagon (I assume you are using a rear-engine longitudinal layout in a buggy). The water cooled Vanagon has an ATF cooler, which would need coolant, but you could rig up a mini radiator and an electric coolant pump from a VR6 car. Then the Vanagon's final drive is the big chunky cast iron one, with the big CVs and low gearing. Perfect for giant tires.

Keep in mind the throttle must go to the transmission as well as the carb/EFI on the engine.

[Tom Notch]

The 010 (vanagon & late loaf) shared its auto section with the Audi 5000, the 003 shared its with the rabbit and the Audi 4000. Different birds but same design.

I remember the very 1st corvair powered Burro buggy, Tiny used the corvair auto and VW torsion housing as he converted his then current personnal buggy, the red one. It was a little crude and he hadn't allowed for the added weight, but it had a BIG POWER advantage. We were still years away from 2180s. I think we called it the Lizzard that weekend 'cuz it had tail dragging marks all over Glamis (or was it Pismo....dang CRS)

[oilhammer]

No, the Rabbit used the 010, it was actually the FIRST to get them, in 1974. The longitudinal cars starting using the 010 in 1976. There was no transverse application of the 003, the 003 was used in the Type 3, Type 4, Type 2 through '75, and the B1 cars (sold here as the VW Dasher and Audi Fox) until 1976, maybe 1977 cannot remember. But by '81 the Dasher/Fox had the 010, and a year later the Quantum/4000 also continued use of the 010 type transmission.

The Audi 100LS may have used an 003 based unit, not sure. Most all of those cars were either sticks or dead before anyone had to mess with them.

In fact the '010'prefix comes from the A1's autobox, the others are technically an '090'or '087' but still use the 010 planetary housing, so are often still refered to as the 010.

[Nemos]

Where abouts can we find rebuild kits for the auto tranny? I came across a good unit i might put in my buggy.

Nemos

[wildthings]

At a transmission jobber near you. Just call around and find out where your local transmission shops get their stuff. You could also call places like German Transaxle in Bend, OR that do rebuilds.