Tires - performance versus vintage
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Tires - performance versus vintage
Hi,
I have 15" diaameter, 5.5" wide wheels, using 165x80x15 tire size. I would like something a little grippier. I read FJ's articles and was decided on using 175x70x15 size.
Then, at a car show I saw another Ghia with that size tyre size and wheels (5.5"wide wheel, 175x70x15). It was lowered to the ground, but the 3/4"less diameter than my current tires made it look like the tires didn't fill-up the wheel wells nice enough. Side by side with my car, mine looks nicer from that point of view. May be the vintage look of the tyres made the diference.
I was thinking to go with 185x70x15 instead of 175x70x15, because the diameter will be almost identical. My concern is that 185 (7.3"wide) might be too wide for my current rim which is 5.5
Thougths?
Thanks!
Luiz
I have 15" diaameter, 5.5" wide wheels, using 165x80x15 tire size. I would like something a little grippier. I read FJ's articles and was decided on using 175x70x15 size.
Then, at a car show I saw another Ghia with that size tyre size and wheels (5.5"wide wheel, 175x70x15). It was lowered to the ground, but the 3/4"less diameter than my current tires made it look like the tires didn't fill-up the wheel wells nice enough. Side by side with my car, mine looks nicer from that point of view. May be the vintage look of the tyres made the diference.
I was thinking to go with 185x70x15 instead of 175x70x15, because the diameter will be almost identical. My concern is that 185 (7.3"wide) might be too wide for my current rim which is 5.5
Thougths?
Thanks!
Luiz
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Re: Tires - performance versus vintage
Check clearance at the rear fenders aft top side. This is where ghias rub.
- FJCamper
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Re: Tires - performance versus vintage
Hi Luiz,
When we ran vintage 70-series 175x15 Avon racing radials we had to have a body shop trim away the inside lip of our 1970 Ghia, then with a compressed-air tool, gentle roll out the upper arc of the wheel opening cutout so we had a slight bulge there. It created about an inch or more of space we needed.
The easiest way (no body work) is to run a 60-series 185x15. The tire profile is low enough to really help, and the 185 width on 5.5" wheels fills out the wheel well.
Of course, this cause speedo errors, but in that both of our Ghias are race cars, we can live with it.
By the way, we've discovered recently that the Falken 185/60-15 handles very well for a street tire pressed into track service, these on our swing axle 1965 Ghia. We did a heavy-duty track day at the Talladega Gran Prix course, and the Falkens performed very well.
FJC
When we ran vintage 70-series 175x15 Avon racing radials we had to have a body shop trim away the inside lip of our 1970 Ghia, then with a compressed-air tool, gentle roll out the upper arc of the wheel opening cutout so we had a slight bulge there. It created about an inch or more of space we needed.
The easiest way (no body work) is to run a 60-series 185x15. The tire profile is low enough to really help, and the 185 width on 5.5" wheels fills out the wheel well.
Of course, this cause speedo errors, but in that both of our Ghias are race cars, we can live with it.
By the way, we've discovered recently that the Falken 185/60-15 handles very well for a street tire pressed into track service, these on our swing axle 1965 Ghia. We did a heavy-duty track day at the Talladega Gran Prix course, and the Falkens performed very well.
FJC
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Re: Tires - performance versus vintage
FJ, which Falkens?
I had the Ziex 512s and loved them.
I had the Ziex 512s and loved them.
- Bonemaro
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Re: Tires - performance versus vintage
I too am curious. I had Ziex on my truck and they were great.
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Re: Tires - performance versus vintage
I'm running the Falken Sincera in 185/65-15 on the SB with stock 5.5 wheels and they look good in the well and handle much better than stock size tires. They have a square'r profile and were $46.00 each at my local tire store.
71 Ghia Coupe........For Sale
71 Super-Beetle Convertible.....returning to DD status
63 IH Scout 80 (beater)
71 Super-Beetle Convertible.....returning to DD status
63 IH Scout 80 (beater)
- Marc
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Re: Tires - performance versus vintage
185/60-15 will throw your speedo (and gearing) off by about 8% compared to a stock 165R-15, while 185/65 will be under 5%. Your rim offset and ride height will affect how tall of a tire that wide you can fit without rubbing - right now the sidewalls of your 165/80s on 5½" rims are (around) 3/8" "narrower" than the 185s will be, and their height is .9/1.65" taller than the 185/65 and 185/60 respectively...check the clearance you have at full lock now, laden, and keep those numbers in mind - and that the 185s will have a "squarer" profile - and you should be able to predict which will fit better on the front. I don't anticipate any problem with either size on the rear if you've got ½" or more fender clearance now.
5½" is the minimum recommended width for a 195/65-15 (less than 3% shorter than the 165R-15, about 1½% shorter than the 165/80-15 you have now) so that's worth considering also. Their sidewalls would be about ½" out from the 165s'.
5½" is the minimum recommended width for a 195/65-15 (less than 3% shorter than the 165R-15, about 1½% shorter than the 165/80-15 you have now) so that's worth considering also. Their sidewalls would be about ½" out from the 165s'.
- FJCamper
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Re: Tires - performance versus vintage
We have Falken 912's, H-rated, meaning good for our 120 mph 1600cc swing axle car.
The Falken's showed they had the right amount of grip and slip to live with the swing axle under no-mercy road-race conditions.
FJC
The Falken's showed they had the right amount of grip and slip to live with the swing axle under no-mercy road-race conditions.
FJC
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Re: Tires - performance versus vintage
But isn't a 185 too wide for a 5.5" wide rim? won't the tyres flex too much?
- FJCamper
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Re: Tires - performance versus vintage
Hi lcvaldetaro,
No trouble here with a 185 on a 5.5 rim, but I wouldn't go much wider.
We took the new Falken's to TGPR near the big NASCAR track in Talladega and had the track rented all day. Our drivers slid, drifted, braked, and in general gave the Falken's every chance to show weakness.
We can race on these.
FJC
No trouble here with a 185 on a 5.5 rim, but I wouldn't go much wider.
We took the new Falken's to TGPR near the big NASCAR track in Talladega and had the track rented all day. Our drivers slid, drifted, braked, and in general gave the Falken's every chance to show weakness.
We can race on these.
FJC
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Re: Tires - performance versus vintage
I currently have 185 kumho solus on my Ghia with 8spokes. Slight rub on one of them under heavy compression only.lcvaldetaro wrote:But isn't a 185 too wide for a 5.5" wide rim? won't the tyres flex too much?
They work great.
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Re: Tires - performance versus vintage
Thanks FJ camper...
So you used 185-65-R15's Falkens Z-912's on all four wheels with 5.5" rims? What tire pressures?
I think that might be the ideal tires for me, it should fill the wheel well and give that vintage look, while having grip that should be way better than the kimho's 165-80-15 i'm using on my 5.5" rims.
My worry about the 185's on the 5.5" rims had to do with some history:
I had 165-80-15's on original 4.5" rims. Then, one of the rims started leaking. I had new tires, so, I just replaced all 4 rims with new ones, but 5.5"; Grip increased by ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE. I assume that I had a lot of flex on the old rims, and on the new ones the handling was so much better. I also think that the negative camber in the back due to the wider rims improved it also.
I'm a little gun shy form using wide tires on narrow rims, but I realize many things are different, including the low profile for the 185 tires should make it much more resistant to flex. I think 6.5 rims would be better, but I can't find 6.5" rims that would have the extra inch going inwards instead of 1/2 inch both ways.... so I'm stuck with the 5.5" rims.
I think I'll go with your tires, your testimony of their tests is enough for me..
Thanks!
So you used 185-65-R15's Falkens Z-912's on all four wheels with 5.5" rims? What tire pressures?
I think that might be the ideal tires for me, it should fill the wheel well and give that vintage look, while having grip that should be way better than the kimho's 165-80-15 i'm using on my 5.5" rims.
My worry about the 185's on the 5.5" rims had to do with some history:
I had 165-80-15's on original 4.5" rims. Then, one of the rims started leaking. I had new tires, so, I just replaced all 4 rims with new ones, but 5.5"; Grip increased by ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE. I assume that I had a lot of flex on the old rims, and on the new ones the handling was so much better. I also think that the negative camber in the back due to the wider rims improved it also.
I'm a little gun shy form using wide tires on narrow rims, but I realize many things are different, including the low profile for the 185 tires should make it much more resistant to flex. I think 6.5 rims would be better, but I can't find 6.5" rims that would have the extra inch going inwards instead of 1/2 inch both ways.... so I'm stuck with the 5.5" rims.
I think I'll go with your tires, your testimony of their tests is enough for me..
Thanks!
- FJCamper
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Re: Tires - performance versus vintage
Hi lcvaldetaro,
We ran 26 front and 28 rear. That should work on the street as well. Tune understeer/oversteer at the front first.
FJC
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL ... gAiXLlPoDG
Select "racerpit full" for a 40-second clip of our Ghia, at TGPR, doing a screen test for a movie.
We ran 26 front and 28 rear. That should work on the street as well. Tune understeer/oversteer at the front first.
FJC
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL ... gAiXLlPoDG
Select "racerpit full" for a 40-second clip of our Ghia, at TGPR, doing a screen test for a movie.
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Re: Tires - performance versus vintage
I didn't know she was water cooled!
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Re: Tires - performance versus vintage
Thanks Marc.Marc wrote:185/60-15 will throw your speedo (and gearing) off by about 8% compared to a stock 165R-15, while 185/65 will be under 5%. Your rim offset and ride height will affect how tall of a tire that wide you can fit without rubbing - right now the sidewalls of your 165/80s on 5½" rims are (around) 3/8" "narrower" than the 185s will be, and their height is .9/1.65" taller than the 185/65 and 185/60 respectively...check the clearance you have at full lock now, laden, and keep those numbers in mind - and that the 185s will have a "squarer" profile - and you should be able to predict which will fit better on the front. I don't anticipate any problem with either size on the rear if you've got ½" or more fender clearance now.
5½" is the minimum recommended width for a 195/65-15 (less than 3% shorter than the 165R-15, about 1½% shorter than the 165/80-15 you have now) so that's worth considering also. Their sidewalls would be about ½" out from the 165s'.
I just measured the rear clearance on my rear tires: 21-mm left, 19-mm right. The 195 would be 30 mm wider or 15mm each way. Leaving a clearance of 6mm left, 4 mm right.
Is that too little?
Also, do we really have to have all 4 tires identical? In the 60's I've see ghias been raod-raced with wider rears than in front. Assuming I can put 195x65's in rear, would it be ok to have 185x65 in front?
Final question, the speedometer cable takes the speed from rear or front axles?
Thanks!
Luiz