Ghia Wool Tuft Testing?

VW underneath a classic Italian body design.

Moderator: FJCamper

User avatar
Fiatdude
Posts: 945
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:58 pm

Re: Ghia Wool Tuft Testing?

Post by Fiatdude » Thu May 09, 2013 9:30 pm

Hey FJC --- Have you thought to run the side of one of the promod Ghia's or possibly the side of Roger Crawfords SS Ghia???

noslzzp
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:04 pm
Contact:

Re: Ghia Wool Tuft Testing?

Post by noslzzp » Fri May 10, 2013 12:10 pm

silkvw wrote:Great post! I've been thinking about what will really work to improve the aero of my Ghia too. So far, I have covered the air openings of the deck lid with a piece of aluminum, cooling air is drawn from under the car with a 4" dia. duct (dryer vent) and intake air to the turbo is taken from the passenger side 1/4 panel air box that draws air from under the car. This set up has worked at 120, 130 and 140 mph. I have a gauge to monitor the pressure in the engine bay, it's always positive when the car is moving, but I don't know if there is enough air flow through the engine bay. During a 141mph, 1 mile run the oil temp was below 200 deg. and CHT stayed below 300 deg.
Very interesting. From the unscientific air flow models I've done, the ghia is showing great laminar flow across the rear end. I was thinking about doing the exact same thing (closing in the deck lid) _but_ moving the vents to the rear end of the deck lid. In the models I've created, moving the deck lid vents to the rear (vertically on the rear end portion) of the deck lid makes a huge difference in the engine bay pressure. The venting also seems to help smooth out the rear drag as well even though it's fairly clean to start with. The only downside I can think of is that at very high speeds a spoiler may be required.

Also, is your car air cooled? And, do you have pictures of your air boxes, etc? Would love to see the placement (is before or aft of the firewall?). I've got a promising model that draws air from the transaxle area and vents through the rear of the deck lid as mentioned above. Your car may be the first real world example of this working.

here's a model I ran on the iPad (don't laugh ;) ):
Image
Introducing the Basilari 306R - '58 low light Ghia, 300HP+ boxer 6, Mendeola chassis
http://basilari.com/

silkvw
Posts: 61
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2002 2:01 am
Location: Elgin tx

Re: Ghia Wool Tuft Testing?

Post by silkvw » Fri May 10, 2013 11:00 pm

nosizzp, your Basilari is awesome! First class, and unique.
My Ghia is air cooled, 1776cc engine with EFI. I didn't want to draw air from the engine bay, since the turbo heats the air a lot, so I came up with the air box idea. Photos at: http://s1113.photobucket.com/user/gregs ... t=3&page=1 will give you an look at my home made set up.
My Ghia doesn't have a front air dam, as per FJC, but I'm working on one. And a spoiler for the rear. To see some idea of what the front air dam can do for a car with a front shape similar to a Ghia, take a look at what it did for a Dodge Daytona: Front end lift/down force on Dodge Dayt ... 184.0.html I sure would like to have a photo of my car going 140 at the TX Mile! Next time I will.

noslzzp
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:04 pm
Contact:

Re: Ghia Wool Tuft Testing?

Post by noslzzp » Sat May 11, 2013 5:49 pm

After looking at your pics and re-reading our description I'm a bit more clear. I have a radiator I'm trying to cool using some of the same principles.
Introducing the Basilari 306R - '58 low light Ghia, 300HP+ boxer 6, Mendeola chassis
http://basilari.com/

silkvw
Posts: 61
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2002 2:01 am
Location: Elgin tx

Re: Ghia Wool Tuft Testing?

Post by silkvw » Mon May 13, 2013 9:10 pm

I'm trying to find a place that will punch louvers in the lower part of my deck lid. I'm thinking it may help to draw air from below the pan, cool the engine with it and exhaust the excess into the turbulent air at the rear of the car. Without a wind tunnel, I may never know if it really works, but it's worth a try.
How is air forced through your radiator, and where does the air go, after it leaves your radiator?
'64 single cab
'70 ghia o = i = o 142mph

noslzzp
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:04 pm
Contact:

Re: Ghia Wool Tuft Testing?

Post by noslzzp » Tue May 14, 2013 2:22 pm

silkvw wrote:How is air forced through your radiator, and where does the air go, after it leaves your radiator?
Thanks for the feedback on my project btw. Sometimes I get so focused on work, I forget the little things. :)

The plan is to have air come up from the transaxle area, flow through the radiator and vent out of the rear of the deck lid as discussed above. The laminar flow across the stock deck lid vent area is too strong to vent there. The models are showing really promising results with this method but we'll need to see what reality looks like.
Introducing the Basilari 306R - '58 low light Ghia, 300HP+ boxer 6, Mendeola chassis
http://basilari.com/

silkvw
Posts: 61
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2002 2:01 am
Location: Elgin tx

Re: Ghia Wool Tuft Testing?

Post by silkvw » Tue May 14, 2013 2:32 pm

I was just thinking, you will be "reheating" the engine with hot air off the radiator, unless the hot air is ducted to the outside of the car. However, what you're doing (with the space available) works with most front engine cars too.
'64 single cab
'70 ghia o = i = o 142mph

noslzzp
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:04 pm
Contact:

Re: Ghia Wool Tuft Testing?

Post by noslzzp » Tue May 14, 2013 2:39 pm

silkvw wrote:I was just thinking, you will be "reheating" the engine with hot air off the radiator, unless the hot air is ducted to the outside of the car. However, what you're doing (with the space available) works with most front engine cars too.
I think you were reading my mind. I have some ideas sketched out around using the deck lid flow to catch "cold air" and to provide a spoiler effect for increased stability. The way you've done your car would work as well.
Introducing the Basilari 306R - '58 low light Ghia, 300HP+ boxer 6, Mendeola chassis
http://basilari.com/

User avatar
juki48
Posts: 473
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:04 am
Location: Upstate NY

Re: Ghia Wool Tuft Testing?

Post by juki48 » Mon Jun 24, 2013 5:57 pm

I have to add an intercooler to my ghia. I'm considering cutting a huge slot in the deck lid behind the vents and having the intercooler stick up about 6 or 7 inches angled back a little. my thought is it would get plenty of air through it, create a high pressure in front of it forcing more air into the vents, and break up the air flow behind the car. what are your thoughts? I'm looking to find something that will be about as wide as the vents and have the fittings under the lid. something like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-Inlet-Outlet- ... 7f&vxp=mtr

spectre6000
Posts: 132
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 9:39 pm
Location: Coal Creek Canyon, CO

Re: Ghia Wool Tuft Testing?

Post by spectre6000 » Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:03 pm

For what it's worth I'm going to be doing the wool tuft testing on a '62 here pretty quick. Just waiting for the guy with the car to get it ready. We'll not be doing anything in the way of aero aides to see how they fare, but it'll be a good baseline.
'57 German Market Karmann Ghia (DD)
'58 German market Beetle (resto in progress)
'62 Panel Bus (sold)

silkvw
Posts: 61
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2002 2:01 am
Location: Elgin tx

Re: Ghia Wool Tuft Testing?

Post by silkvw » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:33 pm

Hi junki48: My thoughts are that what you are considering may be a trade off with no benefit. The intercooler may give you more hp from the engine, but also an increase in drag. Without a reliable way to test this, all I can offer are my thoughts.
If you live near a steep hill, you could try coasting your car down the with, and without a "cardboard" intercooler to see if your speed changes.
The intercooler I bought will fit under the deck lid. It's air to ice water, but I only drive my Ghia a mile at a time. :D
spectre6000 I hope you can get some photos. I'm interested in what the wool tufts are doing at the very back of a Ghia at high speed.
'64 single cab
'70 ghia o = i = o 142mph

noslzzp
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:04 pm
Contact:

Re: Ghia Wool Tuft Testing?

Post by noslzzp » Sun Jul 21, 2013 6:38 am

spectre6000 wrote:For what it's worth I'm going to be doing the wool tuft testing on a '62 here pretty quick. Just waiting for the guy with the car to get it ready. We'll not be doing anything in the way of aero aides to see how they fare, but it'll be a good baseline.
any update here?
Introducing the Basilari 306R - '58 low light Ghia, 300HP+ boxer 6, Mendeola chassis
http://basilari.com/

TwinkyZulu
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2016 2:56 am

Re: Ghia Wool Tuft Testing?

Post by TwinkyZulu » Sat Dec 03, 2016 4:06 pm

Hello, it looks like I'm re opening this feed. =)

I have some inquiries about the aerodynamics of a Ghia too. So reading this feed it is somewhat obvious that the ghia needs some sort of spoiler on the back, any thoughts on having a Datsun 240z type spoiler at the rear of a ghia and not just right behind the louvers on the deck lid?

noslzzp had an idea that I've been thinking about also, which is to stamp louvers in the rear of the deck lid next to the license plate. would that increase air flow or air pressure in the engine compartment? also would there be any benefit to then block off the louvers on the top of the deck lid?

Post Reply