Ok i have been lurking for a long long time and it is time to start working on my ghia, but before i just start buying a bunch of parts i would love to have some feedback/help on doing it right the first time. The direction that i want to go with my car is sort of a pretty street driven subaru powered version of FJCamper's Mexican road race car, mostly it will be for driving on the street but also auto crossing fun back roads ect.
The sort of influences that l really like are first FJCampers cars why? Well they are not for show but for go, meaning just parts that work well not parts that look good but don't fit or break in the middle of no where.
Second the 356 outlaw cars that the parts obsolete builds, lots of great ideas that would great of a ghia but i do not want my car to become some weird combination of the two different body styles it has to keep the great lines of a karmann ghia.
Third 1967 911r (yes l know it is a million dollar car) but what like is how the factory tried to loose weight like drilling holes everywhere, simple interior lightweight hinges how can you go wrong learning lessons from Porsche.
So what do l have well it is a 68 long swing axle that will be powered by a ej22, that is sitting all apart in my garage the metal work on the body was done about two years ago and it is sitting in epoxy primer. We made a few changes to the body like making the rear valence removable filling all the trim and bumper holes as well as making new over sized front grill openings to feed the radiators in the fender wells. I will try to post some pictures when l can find the cd with them but they look really good and no i didn't do it my metal guy did.
So what i need to start working on is the pan and the wannaby racer in me is asking lots of questions
-should i convert it to irs is it worth it or just convert it to a narrow swing axle
-what to do about the front end narrowing it just doesn't make sense as it screws up way too many things like spring rates,bump steer rims with proper offset are the way to go. dropped spindles are a thought to lower the front in stead of adjusters
-should the tunnel re reinforced so it torsional stiffer
Lets start the ideas
Trace
68 ghia build plan
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FJCamper
- Moderator
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- Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:19 pm
Re: 68 ghia build plan
Hi Trace,
I appreciate your comments about my build philosophy.
Have you been through this thread yet?
Ghia Road Course Setup
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic ... 1&t=127619
FJC
I appreciate your comments about my build philosophy.
Have you been through this thread yet?
Ghia Road Course Setup
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic ... 1&t=127619
FJC
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outlawghia
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:36 pm
Re: 68 ghia build plan
Those posts are the main reason i am posting here. I think that i have read every one of your posts a couple of times over the last few years but going back and re reading it was good but now i have a few questions.
-with 140 hp and 2000 pounds how does your lap times compare to say a spec miata or a well set up s2000 (a good friend has the s2000 and will l be able to keep up with him on a driving trip)
- Would you convert to a irs or spent that same money on other things,
-Would you go for more hp say 200 or would that amount make the car harder to drive at the limit? Can the transmission take it without spending a stupid amount of cash The reason i ask is to get a factory turbo that some one took off there sti to upgrade shouldn't be that hard to find and it would help make up for the fact that our elevation is 3500 feet here in Calgary.
-I am not going to put a cage in it maybe a bolt in 4 point but looking at your cage pictures could you not re do the back seat cross brace in thicker metal and have it bolt to the pan and tunnel area effectively boxing the area of greatest flex in the pan with a very little weight gain?
-also looking at your cage pictures in the trunk i see that you tubing going to your shock towers, do they flex enough that they need extra support or does that keep you form having to have axle beam supports
Since i am pathetically slow at typing i will stop here for tonight,but i will try to post some pictures in the next couple of days
Trace
-with 140 hp and 2000 pounds how does your lap times compare to say a spec miata or a well set up s2000 (a good friend has the s2000 and will l be able to keep up with him on a driving trip)
- Would you convert to a irs or spent that same money on other things,
-Would you go for more hp say 200 or would that amount make the car harder to drive at the limit? Can the transmission take it without spending a stupid amount of cash The reason i ask is to get a factory turbo that some one took off there sti to upgrade shouldn't be that hard to find and it would help make up for the fact that our elevation is 3500 feet here in Calgary.
-I am not going to put a cage in it maybe a bolt in 4 point but looking at your cage pictures could you not re do the back seat cross brace in thicker metal and have it bolt to the pan and tunnel area effectively boxing the area of greatest flex in the pan with a very little weight gain?
-also looking at your cage pictures in the trunk i see that you tubing going to your shock towers, do they flex enough that they need extra support or does that keep you form having to have axle beam supports
Since i am pathetically slow at typing i will stop here for tonight,but i will try to post some pictures in the next couple of days
Trace
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FJCamper
- Moderator
- Posts: 2901
- Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:19 pm
Re: 68 ghia build plan
Hi Outlaw--
140hp and just a minimum of suspension tuning and you can run with the Miatas (not the turbos) if you have the driving skill. Miatas are heavy for their engine size and physical size. You are light.
You must know this video clip -- in it we're 1600cc, but 11:1 compression, dual Solex/Kadrons, and Engle 110 cam.
Ghia vs Miata
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0_uceU6EUs&feature=user
No need to convert to IRS. A slight decamber, good shocks, a 19mm front swaybar, 5.5" wheels and good 165 to 185 tires and you will be impressed with how much better your Ghia feels. Remember, the biggest difference between IRS and SA is the cars just have to be driven differently. Swing axles take more skill.
150 HP is a very good number for a street-track day-autocross Ghia. 200 HP is great for an all-out road racer. More power means you can accellerate out of the corners faster and get down the straights faster. The car only becomes hard to handle if you are trying to steer too much with the throttle and can't get the hang of it. A SA can oversteer through corners without power where more sophisticated suspensions need power just to break adhesion to get the same effect.
A good stock SA transaxle can take 150 HP if you are not drag racing. But, as in all things, more power means more stress. IRS transaxles need bigger CV joints to cope with drag race starts with high power, and 150 HP and lots of clumsy shifting will eventually break something.
You can stiffen the floor pan for street use just by bolting or welding on short supports under the pan in the flex area just behind the seats. One per side.
We (and everybody else) always try to tie the roll cage to the suspension pickup points (if it is legal in class) because that's where the most stress is, and you don't want bending or deflection there. But the VW rear suspension shock tower arms are very strong, and for the street, you don't need it, but you can use a Kafer bar brace. It stiffens and triangulates the shock tower, and frame forks to keep engine torque from twisting the forks and breaking the welds.
FJC
140hp and just a minimum of suspension tuning and you can run with the Miatas (not the turbos) if you have the driving skill. Miatas are heavy for their engine size and physical size. You are light.
You must know this video clip -- in it we're 1600cc, but 11:1 compression, dual Solex/Kadrons, and Engle 110 cam.
Ghia vs Miata
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0_uceU6EUs&feature=user
No need to convert to IRS. A slight decamber, good shocks, a 19mm front swaybar, 5.5" wheels and good 165 to 185 tires and you will be impressed with how much better your Ghia feels. Remember, the biggest difference between IRS and SA is the cars just have to be driven differently. Swing axles take more skill.
150 HP is a very good number for a street-track day-autocross Ghia. 200 HP is great for an all-out road racer. More power means you can accellerate out of the corners faster and get down the straights faster. The car only becomes hard to handle if you are trying to steer too much with the throttle and can't get the hang of it. A SA can oversteer through corners without power where more sophisticated suspensions need power just to break adhesion to get the same effect.
A good stock SA transaxle can take 150 HP if you are not drag racing. But, as in all things, more power means more stress. IRS transaxles need bigger CV joints to cope with drag race starts with high power, and 150 HP and lots of clumsy shifting will eventually break something.
You can stiffen the floor pan for street use just by bolting or welding on short supports under the pan in the flex area just behind the seats. One per side.
We (and everybody else) always try to tie the roll cage to the suspension pickup points (if it is legal in class) because that's where the most stress is, and you don't want bending or deflection there. But the VW rear suspension shock tower arms are very strong, and for the street, you don't need it, but you can use a Kafer bar brace. It stiffens and triangulates the shock tower, and frame forks to keep engine torque from twisting the forks and breaking the welds.
FJC