Dipstick comparision, 411 VS 914/4

Discuss with fans and owners of the most luxurious aircooled sedan/wagon that VW ever made, the VW 411/412. Official forum of Tom's Type 4 Corner.
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Lars S
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Dipstick comparision, 411 VS 914/4

Postby Lars S » Sat Nov 27, 2010 7:46 am

Just discovered the difference in min/max marking on the dipsticks for a VW411LE and a 914/4, both from -72. As you may know the two veichles had almost identical 1,7 80hp D-jetronic engines.

The min on the 914 seems to be the max on the 411, despite this the sticks are identical.
In addition to this the 914/4 had a some extra arrangements in the crankcase to prevent high sea in the oil (at least from some year model).


/Lars S


The lower stick is the 914/4 one.
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Re: Dipstick comparision, 411 VS 914/4

Postby Piledriver » Sat Nov 27, 2010 8:35 am

Were the tubes the same height?
I have a couple 914 blocks but don't have 411 block to compare...
Can you measure them? (and the marks, for reference?

Adding a quart on a 914 is considered good practice to avoid oil starvation in hard corners.
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Lars S
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Re: Dipstick comparision, 411 VS 914/4

Postby Lars S » Sat Nov 27, 2010 9:46 am

Yes length, stop and also the tube in which they go are same shape and length.
Will come back with dimensions...

/Lars S
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Re: Dipstick comparision, 411 VS 914/4

Postby wildthings » Sat Nov 27, 2010 10:58 am

The T127 engine takes an extra quart when filled to the mark as well. I have been running my 1800 ('74 412 engine in a bus) a quart over the mark for two decades now, the extra quart fits in the sump so all the worries about the crank churning up the oil seem unfounded. Just don't try and adjust your valves while parked on a side hill.
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Re: Dipstick comparision, 411 VS 914/4

Postby Piledriver » Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:24 pm

Thanks for the comparison, this could explain a lot...
From when the first hunter-gatherer started tilling a field, the reason for founding of the first human settlements, to the very foundations of modern civilization, they had a singular, driving purpose:

The efficient manufacture of beer.
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Re: Dipstick comparision, 411 VS 914/4

Postby Lars S » Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:33 am

Photo showing the two sticks and dimensions.

/Lars S


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Re: Dipstick comparision, 411 VS 914/4

Postby wildthings » Sun Nov 28, 2010 1:12 pm

Lars S wrote:Photo showing the two sticks and dimensions.

/Lars S


How far out of the top of the block does your tube extend?
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Re: Dipstick comparision, 411 VS 914/4

Postby Lars S » Sun Nov 28, 2010 1:19 pm

wildthings wrote:
Lars S wrote:Photo showing the two sticks and dimensions.

/Lars S


How far out of the top of the block does your tube extend?


Approx 86mm on both engines.


/Lars s
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Re: Dipstick comparision, 411 VS 914/4

Postby Lars S » Sun Nov 28, 2010 1:25 pm

Still there is something strange with this since referring to my measuring of the dipstick levels the 914/4 would have had a quite larger oil volume than the 411 but all 411 and 914/4 manuals I have seen (even the owners manual) lists the oil capacity the same to 3,5litres (only Hanyes lists 7,3 US pints for the 411 and 7,4 US pints for the 914/4 but that difference is wery marginal)... :?


/Lars S
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Re: Dipstick comparision, 411 VS 914/4

Postby raygreenwood » Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:14 am

Lars S wrote:
wildthings wrote:
Lars S wrote:Photo showing the two sticks and dimensions.

/Lars S


How far out of the top of the block does your tube extend?


Approx 86mm on both engines.


/Lars s



86mm???? both of mine (EA and EB one from a 411 and one from a 412)....both protrude from the case exactly 6".....152mm......and both of these take exact within a couple of ounces...the correct amount of oil....and are factory. Ray
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Lars S
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Re: Dipstick comparision, 411 VS 914/4

Postby Lars S » Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:47 pm

Reay, I measure from the top of the tube down to the tin...thought I saw the case just under the tin :oops: ...both engines are in the cars a bit hard to see...maybe the case ist a bit under the tin is it?

(PS we are talking coupe engines)


/Lars S
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Re: Dipstick comparision, 411 VS 914/4

Postby Lars S » Mon Nov 29, 2010 2:33 pm

86mm???? both of mine (EA and EB one from a 411 and one from a 412)....both protrude from the case exactly 6".....152mm......


Made a new check for the dimension from the top of the tube all the way down to the case (on my 914 engine), yes it is 152mm like yours.

The extra 10mm of oil level in the 914 crankcase may not mean so much in volume if the oil level is in the narrow part (above the wide section at the bottom) of the sump.
Anhyhow I have noticed (like wildthings) that when adjusting the valves on the 914 you have to have the engine in absolute level, if not oil will be dripping out of the tubes.
When I get time I will fill and tap oil to both max-markings and check the difference.

/Lars S
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Re: Dipstick comparision, 411 VS 914/4

Postby sideshow » Mon Nov 29, 2010 2:54 pm

So one way to tell the origin of the dipstick is the general shape of the finger hook?
    41X would have a flat topped hole
    914/2E would have a more rounded hole

Just to add a data point;
The "W code" 411 engine in my backyard has a dipstick similar to the above.
Yeah some may call it overkill, but you can't have too much overkill.
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Re: Dipstick comparision, 411 VS 914/4

Postby Piledriver » Mon Nov 29, 2010 6:30 pm

My 914 EA has the "411" pattern, but I always ran it 1qt high.

This gave me motivation (and dimensions) to properly re-mark the stick.

I flattened my "loop" to clear better under the squareback engine cover.
From when the first hunter-gatherer started tilling a field, the reason for founding of the first human settlements, to the very foundations of modern civilization, they had a singular, driving purpose:

The efficient manufacture of beer.
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Lars S
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Re: Dipstick comparision, 411 VS 914/4

Postby Lars S » Tue Nov 30, 2010 1:12 am

So one way to tell the origin of the dipstick is the general shape of the finger hook?


No the finger hook is the same (except for that someone has been sitting on the 411/upper stick in the photo below).

The way to tell that it is a 411 stick is that the min marking is about 5mm from the end (whilst the 914/4 one has the min mark more than 20mm from the end).

/Lars S


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