411/412 racecar pictures

Discuss with fans and owners of the most luxurious aircooled sedan/wagon that VW ever made, the VW 411/412. Official forum of Tom's Type 4 Corner.
Post Reply
User avatar
raygreenwood
Posts: 11747
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 3:01 am

Post by raygreenwood » Fri Apr 25, 2008 4:00 pm

Yes....365008 is the GR-2 that fits the audi 4000, VW Quantum and the VW Fox. That is the cartridge. You will need to make the top adaptor and do a couple of 10 minute modifications.

here are the mods:
(1) when you install the cartridge into the 411/412 strut you will quickly notice that with the cartridge all the way against the top cap...it is some 8+ inches or so to short to reach the bottom.
You will need to fashion a spacer to go under the strut cartridge. I used a length of heavy wall galvanized pipe with a screw on cap to fit under the strut cartridge bottom and another against the bottom of the strut carrier tube. I Ground down both threaded ends so that when caps were installed at either end...the cartridge and centering ring dropped in...and the top strut tube cap screwed on...the cartrdige must be tight between the pipe adpator below and the screw cap on top...make sense? You are just taking up the extra space.

(2) The original strut cartridge has this same proplem. You do not want the bottom of teh cartridge tilting from side toside or coming out of center. ALL strut cartridges squirm to some degree.

Take a length of rubber tireinner-tube....about 2" wide. Cover it with contact cement or weather stripping glue. Wind it around the cartridge about 4" from the bottom...so that it fits snug centered in the strut tube. I do this to the galvanized pipe as well.

(3) Almsot done now.....take the adaptor stub you made from my diapgram. At the bottom end where it swrews to teh strut rod...file or grind a flat spot 180 degrees apart on both sides...so you can get a wrench on it. Do teh same to teh very edge of the top of teh strut rod.

(4) Lastly, grind off the nipple...or unthreaded part of the top of teh strut rod where teh allen key fits in. Grind it down along with the top two theads. You want to make sure that when the stub is screwed onto the strut rod...both flat faces come in contact tightly.
Dip both parts in acetone and dry. Apply lock-tite...and screw together with about 50-60 ft lbs of torque. Good to go!. Ray

User avatar
func412
Posts: 506
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 12:55 pm

Post by func412 » Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:04 am

jfe wrote:
Original fender : 4.7KG
fiber fender: 2KG

jeremy
Much lighter indeed!

That makes me think more about entire Fiber "flip" front end.

User avatar
func412
Posts: 506
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 12:55 pm

Post by func412 » Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:05 pm

Drill & tap.

I think that´ll make this case more reliable.

Image

Image

Image

Image

User avatar
jfe
Posts: 47
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 3:31 pm

Post by jfe » Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:27 pm

nice job, jani.

new front shock kyb GR2 is installed with a NOS ball joint and '69 stop bumper (-2cm small than '71 model).
i have move a down mac pherson like (sorry for a translate), -2.5cm:

Image

Image

Image

i have rebuild a front sway fixation:

Image

Image

Image

it's hard on little road, but it's good on highway.
i drive on raceway on 15 june...

jeremy

User avatar
Wally
Posts: 3962
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 3:01 am
Location: Netherlands, Europe

Post by Wally » Fri Jun 13, 2008 4:09 pm

Good work guys!
T4T: Type 4 Turbo engine, under construction

User avatar
raygreenwood
Posts: 11747
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 3:01 am

Post by raygreenwood » Sat Jun 14, 2008 5:22 pm

Very nice work. Yes..the original sway bar mountings are a little weak.
Also...if you do move the original sway bar mountings slightly farther back...then shorten the arms of the bar and install new mountings...the sway bar will be stiffer and faster acting but still in correct progressive level for the car.

How do you like the GR-2's...and what model of car were they from originally?

If you can find a 412....take the control arms, the steering knuckles and the calipers and discs. As long as you take the steering knuckles from the 412 you can use the better and stiffer later model 412 rotors (less flexing in the corners...and because of that...less wear to the caliper bores.
It also allows 5 degrees better static castor if you use the control arms with the steering knuckles.Ray

User avatar
jfe
Posts: 47
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 3:31 pm

Post by jfe » Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:13 pm

Ray:

i buy a kyb 365008

Image
Image
Image

jeremy

User avatar
raygreenwood
Posts: 11747
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 3:01 am

Post by raygreenwood » Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:04 am

Nice work again!
Func412...I would be careful in thoughts about the flip front end. You will need to build a tubular subframe I would bet.

Just remember, this is one of the very first full uni-body cars. It is not a pan type chassis. It is also...one of the very first accident "crumple-zone" cars. There are areas that are designed do bend.

The doors and wings are simply ornamentation. I'm not sure how much chassis you can remove before structural integrity drops. Ray

User avatar
func412
Posts: 506
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 12:55 pm

Post by func412 » Wed Jun 18, 2008 1:24 pm

We´ll see what happens. Doors are lightened, they became much lighter... and flexible =).

I think the roll cage gives more stifness to chassis, but we try to be careful not to weaken the body too much.

Today I was making holes to the case for the oil jets. It looks like guite easy setup, with only one big issue. I must add some aluminium to the case behind the flywheel to drill an oil line from bearing bracket under the piston. I think I`ll drill and tap aluminium bar and make hole through it.

I´ll take pictures to show you what I mean.

User avatar
jfe
Posts: 47
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 3:31 pm

Post by jfe » Wed Jun 18, 2008 3:57 pm

raygreenwood wrote: Also...if you do move the original sway bar mountings slightly farther back...then shorten the arms of the bar and install new mountings...the sway bar will be stiffer and faster acting but still in correct progressive level for the car.
pics or draw ??

i think in first, it's change a rear sway bar because i turn on left (for example), a rear left wheel is fully relaxed and a front left wheel is up ( 5 or 10cm max).
A rear sway bar is not hard, so i think install a big rear sway bar of 944 with a new mouting

jeremy

User avatar
raygreenwood
Posts: 11747
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 3:01 am

Post by raygreenwood » Wed Jun 18, 2008 4:17 pm

I think your idea for a rear mounted forward facing swaybar has great merit.
If I am reading you right....you are thinking of placing the swaybar mounts on the rearward side of the front chassis?

As for oil jets....why not install them outside of the case instead of stealing oil from the mains and making complex drillings?

You could take oil from many places. I am soon to be....in the early fall....adding an external piston oiler set up. In this manner, you can change jets, clean or re-aim the oilers without disturbing the engine.

I am doing this by center drilling four 3.5" 10mm bolts. These will be soft bolts...not hardened. A hole just offset with each rod will be bored in the top of the case. I am milling a flat spot for each bolt to seat at each hole.
Each hollow bolt will have a spacer and and an index mark to show direction when they are torqued in place and locked by metal flap plates (like you find on the front ball joint bolts).
Each bolt will have a flat face ground at the tip facing the piston back. I am using very fine drills to make the orifices. I have not tested yet for diameter of orrifice.

There will be one at bottom of each bolt spraying on lifer lobes and one or two spraying each piston back.

They four bolts will be just offset from the path of the rods by about 1/4". They will be fed by an oil ring tube and threaded fittings on top of the case. I have not decided exactly where I plan to take the oil from.

This is actually much simpler than trying to drill the main webs down below.
I also will have a 3mm ID pipe to each head to feed the rocker shafts and my solid bronze rocker spacers. Ray

User avatar
jfe
Posts: 47
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 3:31 pm

Post by jfe » Wed Jun 18, 2008 4:24 pm

raygreenwood wrote:I think your idea for a rear mounted forward facing swaybar has great merit.
If I am reading you right....you are thinking of placing the swaybar mounts on the rearward side of the front chassis?
Only take a 944' rear bar for my 411' rear
After i think take a 412 original front sway bar (16.5mm) to replace my front sway bar (15mm)

sorry for my bad translate :oops: :oops: :oops:

jeremy

User avatar
raygreenwood
Posts: 11747
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 3:01 am

Post by raygreenwood » Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:54 am

The interesting change will be to the rear sway bar. I have two rearsway bars...stock...a straight one and a cranked one that are stacked on top of each other with custom brackets.

Almost all of teh sway in teh rront end I have found is caused by teh sway from the rear end. For example....when going througha right hand sweeper like in the picture of your car.....the right rear lifts heavily when only the stock rear sway bar is used.
That pushes teh left front downward at the same time. That also helps to highlight the lift on the right front. Do you know what I mean?

Getting a much stronger rearsway bar and controlling forward enertial shifts when decelerating....gretaly enhances the flatness of cornering.

I used two stock sway bars because it was easy and because teh stock bar was nicely calibrated ....but simply too weak. This way I kept the basic calibration but just doubled the effect. I think any upgrade in teh stiffness of the rear sway bar will reward you. Ray

User avatar
func412
Posts: 506
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 12:55 pm

Post by func412 » Thu Jun 19, 2008 11:09 am

I have two original 412 swaybars at the rear coupled together. I also have stiffer springs in every corner. You will be suprised how much faster you are in racetrack after you have changed the rear swaybar bigger.

User avatar
func412
Posts: 506
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 12:55 pm

Post by func412 » Thu Jun 19, 2008 11:49 am

Oil jet setup beginning. It looks like this:

Image

Image

This oil jet will be installed deeper:

Image



Here is the issue:

Image

Image

Image

Image

You see what I mean.

Post Reply