411/412 racecar pictures
- raygreenwood
- Posts: 11895
- Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:01 am
I believe the KG 5406 is the shock from the front of the Ford Econoline van. I found those were exact cross matches in dimensions and valving to the 411/412 a few years back.
You can use the shocks from the 12 ton version or the 3/4 ton version. My local KYB dealer had his catalogues from the last 20 years and cross-mathed the part #'s. They work great. They require a very slight mod to the lower bolt eye to use. Ray
You can use the shocks from the 12 ton version or the 3/4 ton version. My local KYB dealer had his catalogues from the last 20 years and cross-mathed the part #'s. They work great. They require a very slight mod to the lower bolt eye to use. Ray
- func412
- Posts: 506
- Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 10:55 am
We´re trying to make our car faster in the corners. All coments are welcome to improve its performance. The car is totally ready for (heavy) modifications.
For example original gas tank will be removed, so there is more room to improve steering.
I´ll show the implemented modifications here after they´re tested at the racetrack.
For example original gas tank will be removed, so there is more room to improve steering.
I´ll show the implemented modifications here after they´re tested at the racetrack.
- raygreenwood
- Posts: 11895
- Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:01 am
Since the original centerlink is a very weak spot (causing a lot of wobbles).....I would recommend getting rid of it. Even though it can be rebuilt tighter and stronger than stock.....there is a pretty simple way.
The original late 70's to 80's VW rabbits/golf's....have a rack and pinion that is exactly the same ratio lock to lock. (3.5 turns).
If you take the original steering box out...you will notice that it is teh same bolt pattern exactly....as the idler arm bracket. Get an extra idler bracket. Bolt it on in place of th steering box.
Using the original two bolts/pins from the idler bracket you can connect the two idler brackets from side to side....both top and bottom using a pair of steel thick wall tubing pieces.... with heavy duty "eyes" (not ball joints)...threaded into the tubes. Not only does this triangulate the front end side to side, acting as a lower strut brace....it allows you to weld on a simple sheet of steel plate to the tubes. On this plate...you can bolt the rabbit rack. The outer tie rod ends are the same size as the ones on the 412.
Get a piece of sliding splined U-joint linkage to connect the rack to the steering column.....a great many cars have this part...including many golfs.
You will now have not only lower strut brace triangulation but will have rack and pinion steering....and get rid of that damn centerlink. Ray
The original late 70's to 80's VW rabbits/golf's....have a rack and pinion that is exactly the same ratio lock to lock. (3.5 turns).
If you take the original steering box out...you will notice that it is teh same bolt pattern exactly....as the idler arm bracket. Get an extra idler bracket. Bolt it on in place of th steering box.
Using the original two bolts/pins from the idler bracket you can connect the two idler brackets from side to side....both top and bottom using a pair of steel thick wall tubing pieces.... with heavy duty "eyes" (not ball joints)...threaded into the tubes. Not only does this triangulate the front end side to side, acting as a lower strut brace....it allows you to weld on a simple sheet of steel plate to the tubes. On this plate...you can bolt the rabbit rack. The outer tie rod ends are the same size as the ones on the 412.
Get a piece of sliding splined U-joint linkage to connect the rack to the steering column.....a great many cars have this part...including many golfs.
You will now have not only lower strut brace triangulation but will have rack and pinion steering....and get rid of that damn centerlink. Ray
- raygreenwood
- Posts: 11895
- Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:01 am
Any of the early rabbits/golfs with MANUAL steering...not power steering. You could take one from a dasher/passat I would bet, or any of the manual steering golfs/rabbits. You are probably looking for one no later than about 80. At least in this country pretty much everything after 80 was power steering. You could always buy a rebuilt replacemnet for a manual. They run about $200 US.
If you look in the brown haynes manual for rabbits, golf sirrocco....you can see the manual steering racks and the lock to lock turn rating. They have two "u" shaped bushings per rack with two "u" shaped hoops that bolt with two bolts each to the body. Those can be bolted to a plate....the plate can be welded/bolted to two square pieces of heavy wall 1"x 1" tube with eyes welded to each end. Those eyes will go top and bottom of each idler bracket....and through bolted. This is the simple part. The things to work out is a universal joint from the junkyard to connect the rack to the column.....should be easy....and those can be sourced new in every configuration at offroad parts houses. I recommed pushing out the bonded bushes in the idler brackets in putting simple steel bushes since there will be no turning movement in them.
I have not done this yet...but have planned it all and it should be pretty simple.
The last part is making sure the tie rods are the right length. Ray
If you look in the brown haynes manual for rabbits, golf sirrocco....you can see the manual steering racks and the lock to lock turn rating. They have two "u" shaped bushings per rack with two "u" shaped hoops that bolt with two bolts each to the body. Those can be bolted to a plate....the plate can be welded/bolted to two square pieces of heavy wall 1"x 1" tube with eyes welded to each end. Those eyes will go top and bottom of each idler bracket....and through bolted. This is the simple part. The things to work out is a universal joint from the junkyard to connect the rack to the column.....should be easy....and those can be sourced new in every configuration at offroad parts houses. I recommed pushing out the bonded bushes in the idler brackets in putting simple steel bushes since there will be no turning movement in them.
I have not done this yet...but have planned it all and it should be pretty simple.
The last part is making sure the tie rods are the right length. Ray
-
- Posts: 126
- Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2007 3:09 am
I'm considering the idea of swapping to a rack too, just to get rid of that centre link. I've spent a while looking at various racks out there hoping to find something that might make the steering response a little quicker! I have discovered the following information on steering racks which you might find useful...
1970 VW 411 Steering Ratio 19.4:1 / 3.5 turns lock-to-lock (Road & Track February 1971)
1975 VW Scirocco Steering Ratio 17.4:1 / 3.3 turns lock-to-lock (Road & Track February 1975) The Mk1 VW Golf uses the same rack.
1971 Porsche 914 Steering Ratio 17.7:1 / 2.5 turns lock-to-lock (Motor Trend October 1971)
1971 Citroen SM Steering Ratio 9.4:1 / 2 turns lock-to-lock!!!! (Motor Trend October 1971)
According to the Volkswagen's Electronic Parts Catalogue ETKA, they changed the rack fitted to Golfs & Scrioccos in 1977 and I read in a Scriocco enthusiast site that this later rack is not as quick. Mk2 Golfs and Jettas use a different rack again, this design was carried over to the Mk3 Golf, but manual steering versions of these must be very rare! I have no idea what the steering gear ratios of these later racks are...
1970 VW 411 Steering Ratio 19.4:1 / 3.5 turns lock-to-lock (Road & Track February 1971)
1975 VW Scirocco Steering Ratio 17.4:1 / 3.3 turns lock-to-lock (Road & Track February 1975) The Mk1 VW Golf uses the same rack.
1971 Porsche 914 Steering Ratio 17.7:1 / 2.5 turns lock-to-lock (Motor Trend October 1971)
1971 Citroen SM Steering Ratio 9.4:1 / 2 turns lock-to-lock!!!! (Motor Trend October 1971)
According to the Volkswagen's Electronic Parts Catalogue ETKA, they changed the rack fitted to Golfs & Scrioccos in 1977 and I read in a Scriocco enthusiast site that this later rack is not as quick. Mk2 Golfs and Jettas use a different rack again, this design was carried over to the Mk3 Golf, but manual steering versions of these must be very rare! I have no idea what the steering gear ratios of these later racks are...
- Wally
- Posts: 4562
- Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 12:01 am
What the heck are you doing there??
Depending on your answer (probbaly not tho), it reinstated my believes that all scandinavians are somewhat crazy!
T4T: 2,4ltr Type 4 Turbo engine, 10.58 1/4 mi
www.apfelbeck.nl
"Mine isn't turbo'd to make a slow engine fast, but to make a fast engine insane" - Chip Birks
www.apfelbeck.nl
"Mine isn't turbo'd to make a slow engine fast, but to make a fast engine insane" - Chip Birks
- func412
- Posts: 506
- Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 10:55 am
Enjoying that insanity.
I´ll show the results next summer.
Meanwhile you have opportunity to see the last race start by incar camera of the Rymstigers racing team. Nice to see how 412 looks from the view of the other teams.
http://www.rymstigers.fi/kuvat/mov/kemora.mpg (92 MB)
I´ll show the results next summer.
Meanwhile you have opportunity to see the last race start by incar camera of the Rymstigers racing team. Nice to see how 412 looks from the view of the other teams.
http://www.rymstigers.fi/kuvat/mov/kemora.mpg (92 MB)
- Lars S
- Posts: 321
- Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:25 pm
Nice shots Jani! Felt good to see your overtakings!
Question: does the bug driver never use the gearbox...?
/Lars
Question: does the bug driver never use the gearbox...?
/Lars
-914/4 -72 daily driver
-Husqvarna 120cc rat bike -48
-Husqvarna 120cc -52
-BMW 600 Road Scrambler -69
-Suzuki T500 Cobra -69
-VW411LE 2-door sedan -70
-Porsche 914/4 -72
-VW412LE 4-door sedan -73
-Suzuki K50 -77
-Husqvarna 120cc rat bike -48
-Husqvarna 120cc -52
-BMW 600 Road Scrambler -69
-Suzuki T500 Cobra -69
-VW411LE 2-door sedan -70
-Porsche 914/4 -72
-VW412LE 4-door sedan -73
-Suzuki K50 -77
- jfe
- Posts: 47
- Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 1:31 pm
oohh, big job, Jani
no evolution for my 411, just to install a door's number for my group:
Group 1 : 1584cc to 1699 (for me)
Group 2 : 1700cc to 1999
Group 3 : 2000cc and up
i have drive 2000km with my mégasquirt, and no problem. it's very nice!
i drive on Charade raceway on 30 march. it's a old Formula 1 french raceway.
possibility to have 180/190km/h in start line with 150hp !!!
i think to install a video cam in my 411...
jeremy FERON
no evolution for my 411, just to install a door's number for my group:
Group 1 : 1584cc to 1699 (for me)
Group 2 : 1700cc to 1999
Group 3 : 2000cc and up
i have drive 2000km with my mégasquirt, and no problem. it's very nice!
i drive on Charade raceway on 30 march. it's a old Formula 1 french raceway.
possibility to have 180/190km/h in start line with 150hp !!!
i think to install a video cam in my 411...
jeremy FERON
- Wally
- Posts: 4562
- Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 12:01 am
Nice! Less drag inside the case is always a good thing.
T4T: 2,4ltr Type 4 Turbo engine, 10.58 1/4 mi
www.apfelbeck.nl
"Mine isn't turbo'd to make a slow engine fast, but to make a fast engine insane" - Chip Birks
www.apfelbeck.nl
"Mine isn't turbo'd to make a slow engine fast, but to make a fast engine insane" - Chip Birks