What to do - my 1969 Beetle 1500 cc SP

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bibliomane74
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Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:22 am

Re: What to do - my 1969 Beetle 1500 cc SP

Post by bibliomane74 »

OK, so I got the thing out and apart. Lo and behold, the #1 piston rings were in 10 pieces. No wonder no compression. I have to get out there this weekend and clean and really examine everything. Still have to get the valves out to. that way I can know what I have. The case has no obvious imprefections, but I can't imagine that all is well with what was going on in there. I think, when all is said and done, I really want to do something better - no race engine, but a good daily driver. That'll need a 1600 DP at least. I'll try looking at the local machine shops. Once the case is located and solid - how do I go about learning my combinations and choices to build it up? For pistons, cylinders, clutch, carb. All of that? People are always quoting the displacement. Does that automatically imply the cylinders and pistons that are in there? Where do I get that info so that I can do this myself, minus the machine work that might be necessary that is.
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Marc
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Re: What to do - my 1969 Beetle 1500 cc SP

Post by Marc »

Must have had seriously overadvanced timing, or it sat long enough that the rings rusted to the cylinders and were forced to break free.

If the crank is good it'll be fine for a mild street motor, so long as it's sensibly configured for a ~5000 RPM maximum operating RPM (peak HP on a stocker is at ~4500). I'd recommend having the crank & flywheel 8-doweled if you increase the displacement much, it's not hard to tear them apart with a healthy 1679 (BTDT) let alone a 1775. The former uses an 88mm bore (you'd only want the thickwall cylinder version, the "slip-in" jugs are like tin cans with fins and far too thin for a full-bodied car) and the latter is 1775. 1775cc is a time-honored value point when it comes to bang-per-buck, since a mild one can still use stock-valve heads, stock heater boxes, etc...even a stock carb can be made to function, but it'll limit the power too much - I'd go with dual 1-bbls such as Weber ICTs or Kadrons on a stock-crank 1775, with a mild cam and conservative compression ratio it'll have a service life nearly as long as that of a stocker and decent fuel economy, but will be much more fun to drive. Realistically you can expect 70HP or so. A 1679 will work pretty well with a single 34PICT-3 carb and cost a little less to build using the cylinders Chris V mentioned, but if you aren't starting with a complete DP core with good carb/manifold you'll need to buy those, may as well put the money towards the dual singles (it can use them just fine).
Clutch selection depends upon just how much torque you're building for and how badly you plan to abuse it. All stock components will do for a daily driver (and offer a little protection should you ignore my advice about the 8-doweling) but a somewhat stiffer cover (Kennedy Stage I, for example) would be worthwhile if you think you might succumb to temptation and hammer on it now and then.

It's important that you use a proper dualport fan and shroud, and "doghouse" cooler, on a dualport engine - even a stock one - so besides the case & heads you're in the market for quite a few external bits, too. It's generally recognized as safe to use a used oil cooler provided the engine it came from did not suffer bearing failure. Also, the non-louvered engine lid doesn't provide enough air to feed the larger DP fan so you'll need to run with it propped open or cut a hole behind the license plate. A later model hood with louvers is the most deluxe solution.
bibliomane74
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:22 am

Re: What to do - my 1969 Beetle 1500 cc SP

Post by bibliomane74 »

I'm stuck now. Trying to figure out which way to go. Keep looking for an old case and build around it. Get a new case and go from there. Get a full kit from Chirco or something like that. Just get a longblock. Go stock or 1776? Decisions, decisions.
bibliomane74
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:22 am

Re: What to do - my 1969 Beetle 1500 cc SP

Post by bibliomane74 »

OK, update. I found a 1600 DP, dual relief case - B "factory replacement." Is this a decent backbone for the nice daily driver 1776 that I want to build. I am going to take a look and most likely pick it up. Then can fine some parts - or a 1776 rebuild kit and get the thing put together. Really want to do it myself.

Also I have been told that the main bearings will need to be 0.75mm oversize due to boring. A problem?
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Marc
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Re: What to do - my 1969 Beetle 1500 cc SP

Post by Marc »

"B" code means 1600 singleport. An original-equipment B6 case is dual-relief, large-passage and essentially identical to an early non-ribbed AE dualport case other than the oil cooler hardware. A Factory Exchange engine can be built on any case which is appropriate for the codeletter - in other words, for a "B" motor they could use a B5 (horrid), or a B6/early AE (acceptable) or any better case of later vintage.
If it has horizontal "washboard" ribs on the panel by the dipstick, it's comparable to a late AE (or newer). If it lacks those but is dual-relief, it's a B6/early AE. Theoretically it could even be a B5, which is no better than your old H5, but that's unlikely since few of those are rebuildable - and since those were all single-relief it's not a concern for this particular case.

.75mm is ~.030" over stock - there are no main bearings available for this size, so you would have to get the case bored out to 1.0mm oversize whether it needs it or not.
Factory Exchange engines were sometimes bored to +.010" or +.030", but the aftermarket does not offer these sizes. Sometimes FX cases also had the cam tunnel bored oversize - for all practical purposes such a case is scrap today since there are no oversize-O.D. cam bearings available.

"B" spec cases were not necessarily equipped with head stud inserts - and may not even have the "sunken-stud" modification that debuted in `71 (the front upper stud on #3 was the same length as the eight bottom studs, and anchored more deeply in order to stagger the stresses imposed under #3 to reduce the incidence of cracking - a HUGE improvement).

To mount a dualport-style ('doghouse") cooler on a singleport case you'll need to drill out the holes in the cooler mounting "ears" from 6mm to 8mm, and replace the 6mm stud in the top of the case with a longer 8mm.

You definitely want head-stud inserts, AND the sunken-stud, for any quality build - especially if the bore is larger than stock.
bibliomane74
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:22 am

Re: What to do - my 1969 Beetle 1500 cc SP

Post by bibliomane74 »

Now I'm feeling like I should just bite the bullet and get a new case. Sounds like this'll need more machine work anyway, and them I'll have to some other modifications. Perhaps I won't be too far from the cost of a new case anyway. Hmmm....
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