Turbo, small T4 and the stock cam,

This is the place to discuss, or get help with any of your Type 4 questions.

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jonas_linder
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Post by jonas_linder » Sun Feb 19, 2006 6:11 pm

Matt >> Just try it, the worst that can happen is that something brokes! Then you will thank yourself building lowbudgetstuff ;)

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MattKab
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Post by MattKab » Sat Mar 04, 2006 8:28 pm

Not expensive? 'not sure about that. Prices are in line with modern stock parts, Aftermarket T4 prices are painfully expensive I agree :wink:

Assembly of the bottom end has been postponed until spring, no rush and too cold, about 20degreesC below the SI mm@20degreesC.. zero.. nothing...

I installed a compressor into my Mothers shed (hidden) and will have quiet 100psi wind on-tap at home in my garage tomorrow :) 1/4" die-grinder in the next week or so for blending the insides of the cylinder tins, which are all steel. 1mm fit tolerance. I'm pushing myself :twisted:

I'll swap these pics for some much needed feedback, it really helps!

Image

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Followed by a quick mock-up to chin-rub over with that can of Guinness (on the right in the pic) and clean hands after a good days effort, I think.

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Very tired, loads to do tomorrow.

Matt
1979 Karmann Beetle with 1.8ti T4 (still pastel yellow)
1970 411 Variant (black) daily driver
1964 lil' window Beetle (soon to be black)

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Piledriver
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Post by Piledriver » Sat Mar 04, 2006 10:21 pm

If my eyes are working, that bit for the extra air for #4 is either genius or insanity.

Where 'ya puttin the cooler?

NICE work , my welding sucks.
(really need to get some Ar/He mix, the flux cored wire blows)
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

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Wally
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Post by Wally » Sun Mar 05, 2006 2:59 am

Very nice work Matt!
I especially like the sloping of the shroud where the fan housing mates with the cylinder tin. I think somebody has been paying attention :lol:

The hose to number 3 cylinder (not nr 4 Pile :wink: ) uses the doghouse opening right? Although you seem to use a 30 hp shroud (?). It does seem logical to use that opening for cooling the nr 3 cylinder/head extra as that one always runs hottest... Please monitor your head temp results in the end when possible. It may work extremely well or it may induce such an imbalance to the inside air pressures that it works against you.
Only one way to find out right 8)

Thanks for posting Matt!

Best regards,
Walter
T4T: Type 4 Turbo engine, under construction

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MattKab
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Post by MattKab » Sun Mar 05, 2006 5:49 am

Thanks for the comments, I'm considering putting a throttle in the duct to #3...

The cylinder tins are better viewed in 3d, I'll try filming. #1/#2 cylinder tin is almost finished,

It is very tight between the stock T4 FI runners and the rocker covers, I'll look at this today.


Pile', Air to the 'cooler will come from the 7/8 o'clock position of the fan shroud, ducted towards the stock 'cooler location. I will NOT be using the stock location mind, rather a seperate oil cooler housing, a t/stat and a couple or 3 CLT's.. maybe some electrical assistance, if needed. The exact position is undetermined, the 'coolers exhaust will dump the heat well out of harm's way, to the rear. How this air is tapped and shared with the air to the fins next to the case on #3/#4 cylinders, will be a key feature, removable for adjustment.



Now it's time to grind!

Matt
1979 Karmann Beetle with 1.8ti T4 (still pastel yellow)
1970 411 Variant (black) daily driver
1964 lil' window Beetle (soon to be black)

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MattKab
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Post by MattKab » Sun Mar 05, 2006 3:41 pm

Image

Image

Image

Image
1979 Karmann Beetle with 1.8ti T4 (still pastel yellow)
1970 411 Variant (black) daily driver
1964 lil' window Beetle (soon to be black)

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dstar
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Post by dstar » Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:06 pm

Now THAT is what I call craftmanship!
:D

GOOD JOB!
Again I will say, "I wish I could weld that good"....

Don

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MattKab
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Post by MattKab » Tue Mar 07, 2006 7:10 pm

Thanks Don!

The trick is to 'Learn to weld with your eyes closed, THEN (~12years) grab an auto-darkening visor' :D

The welding of the T1 tin to the T4 tin in the above pic was indeed done with my eyes closed, late last summer.

Here is a pic from above:

Image

I'm aiming at the short fall of flow available to #4 coupled with it's possible over exposure and the hotter (?) #3 getting some priority air, which I can meter by tweaking the scoop at the start of the scroll. I plan to use the flaps for proper warm-up in the end, they may be sequential, to warm the motor up squarely. #1/#2 blows down the middle, 'not sure that will work :wink:

How cool are these K-type TC's? Made for the job!

Image
1979 Karmann Beetle with 1.8ti T4 (still pastel yellow)
1970 411 Variant (black) daily driver
1964 lil' window Beetle (soon to be black)

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Wally
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Post by Wally » Wed Mar 08, 2006 3:53 am

MattKab wrote: How cool are these K-type TC's? Made for the job!

Image
Nice indeed! Did you trial fit them in the type 4 sparkplug recess hole?
How will you switch them over to your single metering device? I had great problems with that and the VDO sensors. The themocouples are very low voltage and therefore very sensitive to added switches and the likes. At least thats what I noticed.
A zero resistence 4x2-way switch, would be very welcome..

Regarding the cooling position of your fan housing: why not moved it somewhat more towards the flywheel (like all other type 1 conversions have done? That way you could have left out the extra ducting for nr. 3

Tnx,
Walter
T4T: Type 4 Turbo engine, under construction

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dstar5000
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Post by dstar5000 » Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:58 am

Maybe he is using a Motorola alt!

That is the postiion that mine was going to be before asking
Jake about milling the stand I bought from him 3/8 inch.....

I have equal offset for both sides now.

Don
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of this presidency,".. Barack Obama January 21, 2009, 30 minutes before he signed the law
sealing all his personal information....

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MattKab
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Post by MattKab » Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:28 pm

An equal offset would not respond aswell to the areas I'm looking at modifying. At this early stage I need to keep it simple, so I can see the real effects of the ideas I have.

I'm sure by just adding the extra duct to #3, as it first appears in the pics would not have any benefit, or even would be detremental to an already built Cali conversion. Hence the offset. I've also moved the alternator upwards, requiring an extra 30-50mm in the fan belt with a stock sized crank pulley.

I'll be using the TC4 and lap-top to log/display 4 CHT's/EGT's, 3 or 4 oil/air temps, etc.

I do have another 2 sets of T4 tinware, But too little time to test both, we'll see.

Target date of Bug Jam is looking unrealistic, I hate too rush things.
1979 Karmann Beetle with 1.8ti T4 (still pastel yellow)
1970 411 Variant (black) daily driver
1964 lil' window Beetle (soon to be black)

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Wally
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Post by Wally » Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:49 am

Looks like you at least thought of everything and plan to measure your changes, which is great.
Can't wait to learn from your results Matt!

Keep it up,
CU,
Walter
T4T: Type 4 Turbo engine, under construction

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MattKab
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Post by MattKab » Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:35 pm

Tonight I think I have come up with another angle, I need to think it over..

A diesel engines exhaust opacity is measured by optical resistance. I'm going to isolate each cylinders heat discharge (cold for this test) and have the fan running at various speeds, powered by an air drill or similar. I can measure fan speed upto 1023 rps, when I find this certain VR sensor module. Drawing a high density smoke, like that from a flare or a bunch of smoke matches. Maybe a chamber/diffuser directly before the fan intake to get a good mix of air and smoke. Smoke metered simply by distance from intake. If I can assume the laws of pressure and density apply- higher pressure equals more mass of smoke by volume, which is higher density, measured by a network of photocells, I'll have some data to consider 8) . A lime green LED is the source in the MOT smoke test machine at work. High school electronics in the real world, is that too ridiculous?

This will test the effect of the variables of the cooling, before the motor even gets warm, (or even assembled in my case) ahead of what I'll be doing 'roadside' where I firmly believe the 'highest resolution tuning' is found. Should cost no more than 20quid. Again the possibilities are only limited by imagination, or time, as is more often the case.

Matt
1979 Karmann Beetle with 1.8ti T4 (still pastel yellow)
1970 411 Variant (black) daily driver
1964 lil' window Beetle (soon to be black)

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Sandeep
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Post by Sandeep » Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:06 am

Really like what you are doing here Matt ... testing options with real world data instead of slapping something together.

I did almost exactly what you are contemplating doing ... I used a drill with a socket modified to fit my 11 blade porsche fan, and a cheap hallow'een smoke machine for the smoke effects.

The drill was set at 750 rpm (digital speed control) but when the smoke came out from the bottom of the engine, it was all over the place ! I could not tell which side had the greater density at all, visually.

Sounds like the "Smoke Detector" is the way to go.

Good luck !

Sandeep

Passatman
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Post by Passatman » Fri Mar 10, 2006 9:28 am

Sandeep are you using the type 1 cooling tins under your sleeves. Have you driven the car as yet with it turboed.

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