Turbo, small T4 and the stock cam,

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MattKab
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Post by MattKab » Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:34 pm

Thanks Don, Stateside told me 'new generation' and they've been hardness checked. I'll grab a set on Sunday. First show of the season.

Engine goes together with a stock cam the weekend after :) cam's can be changed later...

It's the cam break-in process that is the problem, how can expect a brand new FI system to hold 3krpm? Not for me.

I can see another benefit of ceramics not often discussed, re-using ceramics to find a better cam. I don't see a problem pulling a motor apart every winter and summer, or every other summer just for a look, and a few tweeks maybe. Sometimes I drive like a dick, so I'm equally happy disassembling as driving. So ANY motor will suit my needs..
1979 Karmann Beetle with 1.8ti T4 (still pastel yellow)
1970 411 Variant (black) daily driver
1964 lil' window Beetle (soon to be black)

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jonas_linder
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Post by jonas_linder » Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:40 am

MattKab wrote:
jonas_linder wrote:
Pics pics pics :)

I will not use my old design of the intake ;) I have a new idéa in mind :)
Air slicing common plenum.. Yes? :wink: I also have some sick plans for a NA 2056, too much planning is going into that, this 1.8 is for fun, to go quicker than 21seconds@60mph and hold it's own (hold together) on the motorway- this summer. Probably your fault Jonas :P I will take pics later.

Matt
Yes.. a common plenum! Where are those pictures ?! ;)

Image

;)

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MattKab
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Post by MattKab » Fri Feb 17, 2006 4:40 pm

:D The pictures are still in the digital dark-room, being 'developed' :wink:

Web #86 landed today, so did my 38mm tube :D Just waiting on Demon Tweeks to deliver the hose :? Runners are then ready!

It's a show this weekend, a chance to grab some white Permatex.

This first pic is from last summer:

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e51/M ... 010111.jpg

Matt
1979 Karmann Beetle with 1.8ti T4 (still pastel yellow)
1970 411 Variant (black) daily driver
1964 lil' window Beetle (soon to be black)

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jonas_linder
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Post by jonas_linder » Fri Feb 17, 2006 4:46 pm

looks like something I have been dreaming up at work ;)

I want to see it finished :)

I love threads with alot of pictures and explanation ;)

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MattKab
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Post by MattKab » Fri Feb 17, 2006 6:27 pm

I love pictures too, more than 1000 words each, so they say.

The flares at the start of my runners are stock 2.0 914 :)

Image

I've done a bit tonight, black tape is in place of Samco turbo hose.

Image

See how the runners are now variable? I'm trying to keep all the intake hardware modular so changes can be made without start afresh each time. They may even end-up telescopic, boost actuated, trombone style, frequency responsive... imagine that? :wink: A strut would replace the link that keeps the hoses blowing off.. Unlikely with less than .75 bar? Paint fumes and Guiness are affecting my typing.

I've just this minute considered the possibility of a 2nd batch of injectors, guess where? :wink:

Matt
1979 Karmann Beetle with 1.8ti T4 (still pastel yellow)
1970 411 Variant (black) daily driver
1964 lil' window Beetle (soon to be black)

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jonas_linder
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Post by jonas_linder » Fri Feb 17, 2006 6:37 pm

MattKab wrote:I love pictures too, more than 1000 words each, so they say.

The flares at the start of my runners are stock 2.0 914 :)

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e51/M ... lenum5.jpg

I've done a bit tonight, black tape is in place of Samco turbo hose.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e51/M ... erz001.jpg

See how the runners are now variable? I'm trying to keep all the intake hardware modular so changes can be made without start afresh each time. They may even end-up telescopic, boost actuated, trombone style, frequency responsive... imagine that? :wink: A strut would replace the link that keeps the hoses blowing off.. Unlikely with less than .75 bar? Paint fumes and Guiness are affecting my typing.

I've just this minute considered the possibility of a 2nd batch of injectors, guess where? :wink:

Matt
Great Matt!! Keep the pictures coming :) I also thought about making it adjustable when fabing my intake! But I didn't have much time :(

I like it! My runnners is way to short :? with 1-1/2 ID would be almost 19" long to make it correct.

To little sleep and paintfumes is what inspires me ;)

I hope not it is in the plenum! It is very hard to control the fuel when you do that! Keep it as close to the port as possible ;) or at least in the runner!

This modularsystem is exactly what I'm going to use on my engine this year.. but with a common plenum ;)

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MattKab
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Post by MattKab » Fri Feb 17, 2006 7:21 pm

Fair point, oxygen nozzles then :D I thinking about an intercooler that splits the air to each side, straightens the flow after the TB and forms a common plenum. Hard on a 2.0l, impossible on 1.8 maybe. Easy on a monster!

I need to finish this so I can move onto a 1&3/2&4 system, a twin plenum/twin TB, etc. Why not, eh? 8)

I'm using Logworks2 so I can have an IAT mounted in a plenum end cap, one each side. Using water mist I might be able to 'balance' the IAT's?

Which are domes and come free with the Argon for finishing my stainless alternator mount (lost that pic) I scrapped 6 empty bottles a few weeks back :x

See how a T4 fits in a stock T1 FI Beetle:

Image

I also finished a 3/8 npt distibutor plug tonight, clamp is now satin black:

Image

It's good you're interestred Jonas!

Matt
1979 Karmann Beetle with 1.8ti T4 (still pastel yellow)
1970 411 Variant (black) daily driver
1964 lil' window Beetle (soon to be black)

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jonas_linder
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Post by jonas_linder » Sat Feb 18, 2006 6:25 am

MattKab wrote:Fair point, oxygen nozzles then :D I thinking about an intercooler that splits the air to each side, straightens the flow after the TB and forms a common plenum. Hard on a 2.0l, impossible on 1.8 maybe. Easy on a monster!

I need to finish this so I can move onto a 1&3/2&4 system, a twin plenum/twin TB, etc. Why not, eh? 8)

I'm using Logworks2 so I can have an IAT mounted in a plenum end cap, one each side. Using water mist I might be able to 'balance' the IAT's?

Which are domes and come free with the Argon for finishing my stainless alternator mount (lost that pic) I scrapped 6 empty bottles a few weeks back :x

See how a T4 fits in a stock T1 FI Beetle:

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e51/M ... rstT44.jpg

I also finished a 3/8 npt distibutor plug tonight, clamp is now satin black:

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e51/M ... 3i8npt.jpg

It's good you're interestred Jonas!

Matt
I must say I can't visualise what you mean about the spliting IC?! :?

Are you going to make a split plenum for 1/3 & 2/4 ? :shock:

Damn it's so much room in the stock FI T1 :shock: That would make fitting a t4 so much easier :)

Are you gone "breath" through the dist. hole?

Keep it coming :)

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MattKab
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Post by MattKab » Sat Feb 18, 2006 9:54 am

I don't have a clear visualisation of the IC myself :wink: yet, I've got to get the cooling finished and mounted, I haven't even selected a turbo, I have a turbo but it maybe too 'tight' on the exhaust- it's from a Peueot 1.9 diesel, same unit as fitted to the 1.4l R5 GT for 2 years according to one source. A friend in the trade can get me near anything Garrett 'built' to spec, for cheap. A thick a T3 will be too big, I'm not trying to build the most HP, I just want to build the best overall package I can..

T4 stuff to do :wink:

Matt
1979 Karmann Beetle with 1.8ti T4 (still pastel yellow)
1970 411 Variant (black) daily driver
1964 lil' window Beetle (soon to be black)

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jonas_linder
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Post by jonas_linder » Sat Feb 18, 2006 10:43 am

MattKab wrote:I don't have a clear visualisation of the IC myself :wink: yet, I've got to get the cooling finished and mounted, I haven't even selected a turbo, I have a turbo but it maybe too 'tight' on the exhaust- it's from a Peueot 1.9 diesel, same unit as fitted to the 1.4l R5 GT for 2 years according to one source. A friend in the trade can get me near anything Garrett 'built' to spec, for cheap. A thick a T3 will be too big, I'm not trying to build the most HP, I just want to build the best overall package I can..

T4 stuff to do :wink:

Matt
That dieselturbo is to small! way to small!
Look for a gt17, t25 or a small T3!

The gt17 will spool very fast and will be sufficient for 200-220hp ;)

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func412
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Post by func412 » Sun Feb 19, 2006 5:13 am

Hi,

This is guite interesting thread and setup!

I have been thinking to built up a low budget Type 4 turbo engine with 66mm crank and 94 cylinders.

I thought to use original 1700cc crank, rods(modified to 22mm wrist pin), cam, lifters.

The cylinders would be 94mm and pistons forged and made for 66 mm stroke and 22 mm wrist pin. I saw this piston/liner set is available in Custom Speed Parts, Germany.

To make compression lower, I`d use modified 1700 injection heads and copper head caskets.

I have no idea what fuel system and turbo would be easy and cheap. Maybe k-jet for fuel system?

What do you think about this package?

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Wally
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Post by Wally » Sun Feb 19, 2006 6:14 am

Hi Matt,

Although inspiring as your turbo build-up is, I was a bit disappointed that you are making your cooling system from the original flat type 4 cooling shroud.
That may work for a stock-ish 1700, but if your going anywhere more than stock hp with this type of DIY shroud, you are taking chances...

Sorry to sound a bit negative; just trying to give you my constructive 002 cents :wink:

Best regards,
Walter
T4T: Type 4 Turbo engine, under construction

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MattKab
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Post by MattKab » Sun Feb 19, 2006 11:41 am

Hi Wally, I've made a few designs of a cooling system of my own, I'm testing this idea first, I forsee a few improvements I can try.

THIS T4 install will 'look' (that bad word again) awesome, like a piece of art. Like a factory install. And all the time it takes is proportional to the time it takes to save money for parts. :) A sort of 'this is how I think a Cali conversion should look. Plus it's something I've looked forward to making since the very early days of the DTM, et al. Or the VW Motoring article to be precise. Looks and nostalgia are included in the design brief. I'll have Innovates 'Sensorbox' when it comes out.

I 'think' I can make it better, by making it bigger :roll: like many before me, I'm sure.

My own design will be the best available to me at any cost, even if I roast a motor developing it. It may have an integral IC, or a supply of cool air for an IC, either way I do not under estimate the amount of graft ahead.

@Jonas, I was also thinking GT17, this small one I have is a T2 which converges to a finger tip sized port in the turbine housing, far too small I agree. I will go with that suggestion, thanks.

Func412, your package sounds good enough to get the project started! K-jet is awesome, something else I must do in the future.. I've been offered a 2.7l flat6 with K-jet for £500 :twisted: An easy weekends work for my 411 :D too busy finishing what I've started tho'.

Today I got the 24 hose clips for the runners, all matching and in stainless, made in Germany..perfect. I'll have to chase my hose order, it's been 2 weeks since I payed for it, Better service from CSP! VAT@16% makes a difference :D

Matt
1979 Karmann Beetle with 1.8ti T4 (still pastel yellow)
1970 411 Variant (black) daily driver
1964 lil' window Beetle (soon to be black)

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Wally
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Post by Wally » Sun Feb 19, 2006 3:36 pm

Very cool to hear you're obviously not taking the easy or the 'as cheap as possible' road with the cooling of this particular engine 8) (what was I thinking :lol: )

Now I am curieus as to what will you come up with :D

Tnx
Walter
T4T: Type 4 Turbo engine, under construction

melvis360
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Post by melvis360 » Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:33 pm

hey funct412 i'm gathering parts right now to do the 66mm stock crank and rods mod for 22mm pins and t-1 pistons 93mm stock barrels bored to 94mm and basic k-jet from a volvo just need to find some t-4 cylinder tins for the right price a turbo and start fab work on my budget still probably another year out befor the car is ready to drive doing full resto on the body,int and elect now. and as soon as i sell my squareback i should be able to finish the paint, interior and start assembling the engine. been doing research on k-jet and the more i learn the cooler it is. after jake is done with his turbo testing i'll definetly get a cam from him probably a b-spec trans as well then hold on :D

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