JS Safeguard- Knock retard system

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JohnConnolly
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JS Safeguard- Knock retard system

Post by JohnConnolly » Wed May 15, 2002 10:09 pm

Funny you mention this; I'm going to make a bunch of these to make the install a true bolt in with no drilling/tapping.

John
Aircooled.net Inc.

Joe Goldthwaite
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JS Safeguard- Knock retard system

Post by Joe Goldthwaite » Thu May 16, 2002 3:54 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JohnConnolly:
<B>Dan,

this last comment is irrelevant to the Safeguard, it's a comment on CDIs and Batch Fire ignitions, it has nothing to do with the Safeguard and/or the Safeguard's functions or operation. It "should" be in a separate topic.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

All I was trying to say is that optimal timing will give you a bigger payback than a higher intensity spark. I think that's a correct statement unless your spark is so week that you're not getting a reliable ignition. I brought up the SafeGuard because it gives you optimal timing and should give you a more measurable benefit than a CDI system. I'm not saying that you shouldn't have both. Even if you have SafeGuard, the CDI should still help. I intend to have both.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>
BTW, the gap in the various components doesn't matter, it's only the largest (highest resistance) gap that matters, once the spark can jump that one, the other ones are non-existent to the spark voltage.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is counter-intuitive. I'm not saying you're wrong but it doesn't make sense to me. Let me think out loud about this. Each gap is in effect a resistor. If you wire multiple resistors in series, the resistance accumulates. Voltage drops across a resistor. Are you saying that if you have a wire with thirty 1mm gaps and a final gap of 2mm, and you have enough voltage to jump 2mm, then it will jump across all thirty 1mm gaps AND the 2mm gap? That can't be right.

Now, if you have enough voltage to jump across the total 32mm gap, it doesn't make any difference how the gaps are arranged. You could have one big 32mm gap, two 16mm gaps, or sixty four .5mm gaps. It would make no difference. In a car, if you don't have to jump a gap in the distributor, you should be able to reliably run a bigger gap on the plug giving you a longer spark with more exposure and therefore a more effective ignition.

In other words, you need enough voltage to jump the total gap. A multi-coil system keeps the total gap at the plug where it's most effective.

I still think you quickly get into a case of diminishing returns. The energy comes from burning the fuel. Once that's getting reliably ignited, more won't get you much of anything - at least not with the air-cooled VW engine. In a high RPM ultra lean burning engine, this stuff gets much more important.

By the way, you're not supposed to disagree with me. I'm a customer and the customer is always right, right? Image (I'm kidding! I'm only occasionally right and I'm NEVER sure that I'm right.)
Funny you mention this; I'm going to make a bunch of these to make the install a true bolt in with no drilling/tapping.
I'll buy one!

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samcat
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JS Safeguard- Knock retard system

Post by samcat » Thu May 16, 2002 6:28 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JohnConnolly:
<B>Funny you mention this; I'm going to make a bunch of these to make the install a true bolt in with no drilling/tapping.

John
Aircooled.net Inc.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would also buy one of these BUT will it fit on a porsche cooled T4 in a T1 ??

Cya,
Sam C (in the UK)

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danielzink
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JS Safeguard- Knock retard system

Post by danielzink » Thu May 16, 2002 8:03 am

<< e of these BUT will it fit on a porsche cooled T4 in a T1 ??
>>

question is......how easy is it to get to the top right bolt on the bellhousing ? From what I've been reading - that's the most difficult part of the install.
The rest of the install would involve wiring inside the car.

Dan

------------------
my65notch@aol.com

http://users.aol.com/my65notch/index.htm

JohnConnolly
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JS Safeguard- Knock retard system

Post by JohnConnolly » Thu May 16, 2002 10:03 am

this is correct. Once the voltage jumps the highest resistence gap, the others are "invisible" to the spark. This is how some of those devices work that you install on your plug wires to get a "bigger spark". It's just a gap in the "device", and arc-over voltage must be higher before the spark initiates. This means the voltage builds more at the coil before it comes out. Spark ENERGY is the same but voltage is higher (lower current), but looks impressive on their ads and demos.

The last point about secondary ignition; once the cylinder is burned, it doesn't matter if it was done with a $50k microwave ignitor, or a set of points and a blue coil. IF the cylinder is getting ignited, there's no benefit to a larger/fatter spark. The benefit comes when the stockish ignition fails to ignite the charge, but a CDI has enough guts (or multiple sparks) to light it off, even if it went back out after ignition.

The Safeguard works on T-4s, and the same adapter we are making will work on those also, making it a true bolt in (provided you can solder 5 wires together).

John
Aircooled.Net inc.


This is counter-intuitive. I'm not saying you're wrong but it doesn't make sense to me. Let me think out loud about this. Each gap is in effect a resistor. If you wire multiple resistors in series, the resistance accumulates. Voltage drops across a resistor. Are you saying that if you have a wire with thirty 1mm gaps and a final gap of 2mm, and you have enough voltage to jump 2mm, then it will jump across all thirty 1mm gaps AND the 2mm gap? That can't be right.

51MAN
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JS Safeguard- Knock retard system

Post by 51MAN » Thu May 16, 2002 11:02 am

OK, this looks pretty good.
It is just what us people that run on LPG (100 Ron +, 110 Ron typical) are looking for, we can max out the advance and allow the "gizmo" to retard to a "safe" level. of course when we (occaisionaly) run on petrol it will save out engines from the lower octane unleaded (95 Ron).
So how much is it then?? what about a bulk order discount?? and export?? Feel free to mail me...
Cheers
Si

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samcat
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JS Safeguard- Knock retard system

Post by samcat » Thu May 16, 2002 11:48 am

51MAN,
There is a UK distributor for Aircooled.net :

Tim Moores, HSL Racing
07768 878 989
sales@hslracing.com

Cya,

Sam C

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samcat
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JS Safeguard- Knock retard system

Post by samcat » Thu May 16, 2002 12:00 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by my65notch@aol.com:
Question is.... How easy is it to get to the top right bolt on the bellhousing ? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That depends. Exactly which bolt do you mean (it all depends on what way you look at the engine).
Its a T4 engine in a beetle, so I would be looking in from the engine bay, towards the front of the car. The gearbox is on the opposite side of the engine to where I look in.
Describe which bolt you mean: (or post a piccie)

Cheers,

Sam C

Steve Arndt
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JS Safeguard- Knock retard system

Post by Steve Arndt » Thu May 16, 2002 2:05 pm

resistivity?
sa

turbo6bar
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JS Safeguard- Knock retard system

Post by turbo6bar » Thu May 16, 2002 2:11 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 51MAN:
<B>So how much is it then?? what about a bulk order discount?? and export?? Feel free to mail me...
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Hey, I like that idea. "Bulk order discount"

Image

j

Single Cab
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JS Safeguard- Knock retard system

Post by Single Cab » Thu May 16, 2002 2:16 pm

Any reason to consider this device for a stock T4 upright conversion? What is involved in tuning the unit and how difficult was it to get dialed in?

Thomas

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Poor Realist
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JS Safeguard- Knock retard system

Post by Poor Realist » Thu May 16, 2002 2:23 pm

Yes, bulk order! But I'd rather keep ac.net in business...

Steve

Joe Goldthwaite
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JS Safeguard- Knock retard system

Post by Joe Goldthwaite » Thu May 16, 2002 2:29 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Shad Laws:
<B> that's why the drop in the rotor/cap is insignificant compared to the spark plug.
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You still need enough voltage to jump the total cumulative gap, not just the highest resistance point. The amount of extra voltage needed to jump the gap in the distributor is probably immaterial. I'll agree with you on that one.

Shad Laws
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JS Safeguard- Knock retard system

Post by Shad Laws » Thu May 16, 2002 2:31 pm

Hello-

resistivity?

Resistivity is in dimensions of resistance times length. Multiply by length and divide by cross-sectional area to find the resistance of a long, thin conductor (i.e. wire).

I *think* the thing I was describing is the dielectric breakdown coefficient? I dunno.

Take care,

------------------
Shad Laws
LN Engineering
http://www.lnengineering.com

Shad Laws
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JS Safeguard- Knock retard system

Post by Shad Laws » Thu May 16, 2002 2:39 pm

Hello-

You still need enough voltage to jump the total cumulative gap, not just the highest resistance point.

Correct.

The amount of extra voltage needed to jump the gap in the distributor is probably immaterial. I'll agree with you on that one.

Aye... 20kV-40kV is hard to differentiate from 21.5kV-43kV :-)

Most modern manufacturers don't use distributors because coil packs and a cam sensor are more maintenance-free (no cap, no rotor, no lubrication, one less plug wire, etc.).

Take care,

------------------
Shad Laws
LN Engineering
http://www.lnengineering.com

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