Cali type 4 runs warm

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bushoarder
Posts: 76
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 3:33 pm

Cali type 4 runs warm

Post by bushoarder » Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:20 pm

Hi all
Just looking for some advice, got my type 4 running well now in the early-bay. It’s a Cali converted upright type 4 with the type 4 cooler and type 1 fan/housing.

Temp sender checked with boiling water so happy with that.

Bus is running at 110c at-a constant 60mph in 27c ambient.

I know the Weber 40 idfs need rolling road to sort properly but plugs are light brown in colour so I’m living with 15mpg until I build an air box system to abate the induction roar. I know these tweaks will change jetting.

Engine is brand new vw nos 1800.

I have some engine bay sealing issues - slight gaps not no rubber.

Anyone got any thoughts on likely contributors - is it possible that the heating is due to the sealing? I guess I’m only after losing 5-8c.

Thoughts on a running temp appreciated too.


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wreck
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Location: Brisbane Australia

Re: Cali type 4 runs warm

Post by wreck » Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:15 am

I use a Mocal 80C thermostat sandwich block with remote coolers and thermo fans to control oil temps, things like restrictive exhausts and timing /AFR can also cause heat . the stock type 4 distributor with vacuum advance is still a good choice for a mild type 4 . 110C is still safe as long as you still have good oil pressure and many people would be happy those numbers. Personally I like a bit lower temp.
No matter where you go , there you are !

bushoarder
Posts: 76
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 3:33 pm

Re: Cali type 4 runs warm

Post by bushoarder » Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:37 pm

Thanks Wreck, appreciate your thoughts :)

I’m running a t25 dizzy with amplifier and coil and vacuum. I guess the curve may be out slightly but I was hoping not too far out! It’s timed to 7.5 degrees at tickover and gets to 30/31 on full advance without vacuum.

Everyone always says if you need fans you have other issues but I’m tempted to go that route if needed so that the old girl keeps going safely. After all a type 4 in an early bay with early bay gearbox and modded cooking ain’t exactly factory!!!

The sandwich plate is a good thought - I don’t have the flaps installed yet due to more fab work needed .....

I don’t have cht gauges but too many worry gauges and you just don’t drive it!!



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tmatre
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Location: Rogaland Norway
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Re: Cali type 4 runs warm

Post by tmatre » Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:57 am

I'm using a oxyboxer (92 thick walled cylinders) with T4 oil cooler in T1 doghouse and oil an Empi oil thermostat that bypassed the oil cooler when cold
My oil temp instrument shows rising temperature when running above 55 mph (90 km/t).
(I'm running a 3 rib mountain spec gearbox and have about 2800 rpm @45 mph)

My experience is that ambient temperature has most effect on he oil temperature, then the rpm.

Please note that the voltage feed to your instrument may be much higher running high rpm. I added a 12V regulator to make sure the voltage feed to my oil temp instrument is the same on idle as on 4K + rpm. The instrument still shows stable temperature below 55 mph, and rising temperature above but not as much difference than before adding the voltage regulator.

I then added a remote oil cooled with fan under the bus and now got a stable temperature also when running hig rpm at warm days

And yes.. im going to replace the gearbox with a brand mew 5 rib i got on my shelf :-)

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dstar5000
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Location: Princeton, North Carolina

Re: Cali type 4 runs warm

Post by dstar5000 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:46 pm

If that 1800 is truly NOS, then the CR is way too low....not to mention the cam sucks.
BUT! A small turbo would solve your problems! :D

Don
‎"Let me say it as simply as I can: transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones
of this presidency,".. Barack Obama January 21, 2009, 30 minutes before he signed the law
sealing all his personal information....

bushoarder
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Re: Cali type 4 runs warm

Post by bushoarder » Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:17 pm

Hello Don

It is definitely a nos 1800 industrial motor with the big valve heads in it otherwise who knows what spec! Gonna rolling road it to sort out the bad mpg and then I’ll get an hp figure so I’ll know a bit more. Stock Uk 1800 would be 68bhp so with Weber’s and a better exhaust I’d expect a bit more - guessing around 70-80. If it’s less then it’ll be a low compression engine I guess.

Cam is a mistery.. some say it’s higher lift than the bus engines and others say it’s the same. I won’t strip it to check!!

Ambient temp is a major factor, journey out tonight runs at 100, same journey home and it’s at 90 with a 5 degree cooler ambient.

Gotta check and go over sealing again....


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bushoarder
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Re: Cali type 4 runs warm

Post by bushoarder » Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:18 pm

Ps I like the Turbo idea.... have an sc12 supercharger sitting here....


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dstar5000
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Re: Cali type 4 runs warm

Post by dstar5000 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:41 pm

You can check the cam at the lifters.......
Also, The traditional approach is to try to hold oil temperatures between 230 and 260 degrees...
conventional oil...after rings ARE seated, switch over to synthetic. Your temps are not horrible!

Don
‎"Let me say it as simply as I can: transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones
of this presidency,".. Barack Obama January 21, 2009, 30 minutes before he signed the law
sealing all his personal information....

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dstar5000
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Location: Princeton, North Carolina

Re: Cali type 4 runs warm

Post by dstar5000 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:46 pm

You will need 10,080 litres/min for 10Psi boost....you need to spin the SC12 up to 8,400rpm while the Engine is doing 6,000rpm to achieve that.
8,400 is well under 12,000 so youll be safe running that boost.

Its up to you how much boost you wanna run, but remember, the more boost you run, the more heat is created and the harder the charger has to work. SO, the harder you boost it, the shorter the chargers life will be due to heat and wear.
Hope this helps!

Don
‎"Let me say it as simply as I can: transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones
of this presidency,".. Barack Obama January 21, 2009, 30 minutes before he signed the law
sealing all his personal information....

bushoarder
Posts: 76
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 3:33 pm

Re: Cali type 4 runs warm

Post by bushoarder » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:46 pm

Thanks Don

Appreciate your feedback. Worry gauges are just that...

I was always told don’t use synthetic as it coats the parts holding the heat in, then again lots till swear by sae 30!!

Jon


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bushoarder
Posts: 76
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Re: Cali type 4 runs warm

Post by bushoarder » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:49 pm

Thanks again don. Where do you get your calcs from?


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dstar5000
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Re: Cali type 4 runs warm

Post by dstar5000 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:17 pm

I don't even remember. Just google supercharger calcs and it ccame up!
:-D

Don
‎"Let me say it as simply as I can: transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones
of this presidency,".. Barack Obama January 21, 2009, 30 minutes before he signed the law
sealing all his personal information....

bushoarder
Posts: 76
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 3:33 pm

Re: Cali type 4 runs warm

Post by bushoarder » Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:33 pm

Cheers!

Further question... I’m using a t25 dizzy with factory electronic ignition, I think it’s a 1.9 wasserboxer unit. Timed to 7.5 btdc with only the advance port in the dual vac can connected.

Would the curve on this or the connections cause the engine to run warm? Should I get a proper aircooled dizzy in there?

This dizzy was nos therefore perfect hence my pleasure at fitting it!!


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dstar5000
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Location: Princeton, North Carolina

Re: Cali type 4 runs warm

Post by dstar5000 » Sat Jul 28, 2018 10:37 am

Are you running the tins under the cyls?

Don
‎"Let me say it as simply as I can: transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones
of this presidency,".. Barack Obama January 21, 2009, 30 minutes before he signed the law
sealing all his personal information....

bushoarder
Posts: 76
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 3:33 pm

Re: Cali type 4 runs warm

Post by bushoarder » Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:04 am

I’m running stock type 1 tins under the cylinders rather than type 4. I figured on a type 1 cooling system that was best?

I have read that type 4s tins have exhaust cooling bits though - any thoughts?


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