Stock internals 1.7 in a Beetle?

[Carguy89]

Hello. I have a stock NOS 1.7 from a 71 914 Porsche. The plan was to build it as a 1911 with a Raby camshaft kit,reworked heads ect. I am kind of thinking I might throw this engine in my beetle as is with some dual carbs and a decent exhaust system. However time is not on my side, and neither is engine building experience. This engine is brand new never been ran. I already have a DTM cooling kit for it. With the stock internals and heads will this be much of an improvement over my stock 1600 type 1? Thanks in advance. Cheers.

[Piledriver]

Yes, absolutely run it. It will have almost double the power, but will last ~forever in a bug.
A high compression 914 1.7 with a good exhaust and a set of properly sized carbs ot TB will be a riot.
BTDT, highly recommended.

The stock cam works reasonably well in a 1700.
You can do better, but it makes for a great driver.

My ancient 1700 (300K++ miles at the time) in my sons car walked away from a friends fresh and well built 1835 setup in a bug regularly, even with way too big 44IDF/36s on the 1700.

I borrowed that car to drive to Florida... passed the Wife test, and got over 40 MPG at ~ludicrous sustained highway speeds for hours at a time.

Just put a really good exhaust and throttle linkage on it, like an A1 (std rear outlet, not a sidewinder) and a Synclink.
You will want HD stock rubber trans mounts and a kafer brace, and have the 914 flywheel ring gear turned back to T1 dimensions, it works just fine otherwise, and will easily take more power. It already has the bushing in the flywheel for the "conversion".

I built a Joe Cali cooling setup from the manual.

Buy the HD rocker studs and solid spacer kit, and some 911 style elephants foot adjusters, the US made Bugpack ones seem to work fine, not sure if EMPI ruined that yet.

Run a T1 oil cooler if you have one, rather than T4, unless you live in a very hot climate.
(Hotter than Dallas, Texas, anyway, maybe in Phoenix)

[Carguy89]

Thanks for the reply. My DTM kit actually has an oil cooler with it. Pretty sure it's from a type1. I actually live in northern Canada no not warm at all. Where is a good place to order an A1 exhaust from? Also which carbs would work well with this engine ?

[Piledriver]

40 IDFs or even 44s but with smallest venturi.
Note:You can get excellent dry media filters for Webers these days: avoid oiled gauze filters like a disease.

Here's A1s facebook page, has phone# at the top:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-1-Perf ... 6779512349
I suggest dealing with them directly, phone is usually suggested.

[Carguy89]

Thanks Pile. What brand should I be looking at for carbs? Genuine Weber, Empi? This will be my first experience with dual carbs on a VW and there are not too many people near me that are into VWs.

[Piledriver]

I must confess I gave up fiddling with carbs and distributors awhile back, but I would buy new from a reputable vendor if you can swing it.

CB Performance is great, but I despise their "hexbar" throttle linkage, and I don't think they sell the good dry media synthetic filter elements yet, its worth it to just shelve the leaky oiled gauze filters and buy the dry media elements.

For all the slagging EMPI had earned, their current HPMX carbs have a decent reputation, and they are advertising new Dellorto clone carbs, which may be better, as they faithfully copied the Webers flaws as well with the HPMX.

For a linkage, get a Synclink and be done with it.

Given the cost of new carbs, you might consider a full Megasquirt EMS setup from Mario at thedubshop.net, he sells essentially plug and play systems, but also parts if you are into digging in. He has a nice crank trigger and such for t4s.

You can also completely DIY using motorcycle throttle bodies, or even using cheap Ebay Weber clones.
(you can get nice ITBs with well sized injectors for $100 or less that essentially bolt on Weber/Dell manifolds)

[Clatter]

I'll weigh in, and say "Don't touch it"!
If you are short on time and experience, you will have your hands full already with the conversion project.

There was nothing wrong when people drove them home from the Porsche dealer in 1972,
Why should there be anything wrong with these motors now?
(At least with an NOS one)
If it drips oil somewhere deal with it then(!)

x2 on everything Pile said above with the Webers and linkage and exhaust.

One thing I would do if you have the money,
(and also time left over from not opening up your motor )..

Get ahold of Blackline Racing (formerly ACE) in SLC, UT.
See if they won't sell you a set of new carbs already set-up.
Even brand-new needs cleaned out, floats set, jetting, etc.
If ACE goes thru your carbs, you can just bolt them on and run them for years.
They can jet them for your motor, and run them in on a similar motor at their shop.
They will arrive already sync-ed, and ready to go.

Too often the QC on new ones isn't up to snuff.
If you are new to Webers, and get a defective set, life would be no fun.
If ACE goes thru them for you, and they are brand new,
I bet it wouldn't cost that much more to guarantee success.

I fought an old swap-meet set of Italian Webers, until the ACE treatment, and haven't looked back.

You will have your hands full with the conversion, and all of the little fiddly things that go with these cars.

If, after you get everything sorted and working,
There's an oil leak, or you want more power,
You can pull the motor back out easily enough.
It will be really easy compared to this first time when you have to convert everything..

Webers and exhaust and all will have set the stage already for an upgrade in power.
It will already be uncorked and breathing well.
If you want a cam, more displacement, headwork, etc. you will already have the induction and exhaust.


My bet is, that you will be perfectly happy with stock type 4 power in a beetle.
An NOS 1.7, assembled by Hans and Frans in Germany.. MMmmm.
That should be the sweetest, most well-mannered, smooth and tame creature around town idling in traffic..

With some Webers and a header, it would howl when called into action, as well!

Let us know how this goes..
Post some pics!

[oprn]

Hello Carguy89, so you're from Canada too.. eh? How far north?

I don't know what intended use you have in mind for the Bug but there are a couple things you may want to think about for our climate. First off is the lack of a thermostat in the upright conversions to control the engine temperature. If you are only going to run the Bug on hot summer days and only on the highway you won't miss it. On cooler days and light loads though, it will be a challenge to keep it running right! It will act just like it needs a bit of choke on all the time.
Which brings me to the choke issue. Starting it above freezing won't be too bad, just some pumping of the throttle till it warms up enough to run but if you intend to drive it in colder weather you will really miss having chokes! Manual chokes will also help mask the stumbling that will happen in traffic without a thermostat. Just pull it on a bit in stop and go situations and take it off for the highway. Much like you would do in a small aircraft with the mixture control.

I am putting a type 4 engine in my buggy and retaining the stock cooling system for the above reasons. Unfortunately you won't have that option!

[oprn]

One more thing you may encounter if you have to get a safety inspection before you can licence or insure it, some mechanics won't pass a car that has no heating/defrost system.

Fortunately I have not been asked for an inspection yet!