choice for a camshaft

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_flat4power_
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choice for a camshaft

Post by _flat4power_ » Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:51 am

Hi ;)

I need your help
I'm looking for a camshaft.
I have a 2L T4 westy. I plan to boost my engine and the choice of the camshaft is determinant for the rest of configuration.
So my particularity is to have a automatic trans.

I search torque but need power too for kick down :D

can you help me ?

I saw web 86a 494 163/86b ...but it's hard to choose which one would be the best for my use.

after that I need to adapt the rest so CR , rod , header 42x34 or other ...

thanks

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CLKWRK
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Re: choice for a camshaft

Post by CLKWRK » Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:18 pm

Hi I picked the web 119 for my T4 turbo build mainly because I do not plan on going higher that 6000 rpm (I have Hd single valve springs ).
Since it is for my ghia which has street car gearing, I want to keep the power band in a useable part of the rpm range.
The wider lobe center is nice for boost because it has less valve overlap, I also noticed that it will flatten out the torque curve a bit which I like for street driving

I have an 86a with 112 LC in my type 1 turbo and its is lots of fun, but it is happier at higher rpm than the 119

_flat4power_
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Re: choice for a camshaft

Post by _flat4power_ » Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:53 am

No turbo for me ;) just normaly aspired engine with a injection controlled by a megasquirt clone ;)

TZepeSH
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Re: choice for a camshaft

Post by TZepeSH » Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:27 am

_flat4power_ wrote:
I plan to boost my engine and the choice of the camshaft is determinant for the rest of configuration.
But you just said you want to boost it. Or supercharge it?
In any case, the camshaft and compression for NA or boost shall be different. Web 86a 494 163/86b will like 9:1-9.5:1, a bit too high if you plan to boost it later on.

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Piledriver
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Re: choice for a camshaft

Post by Piledriver » Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:10 am

A 119 really wants dual springs due to .500" lift at valve.
A 494 is also a pretty violent profile... if you intend this to last awhile, may need T1 lifters and bushings.
A 119 isn't exactly gentle either.

A 163/86b on std 104LC is not remotely a bus cam. It pulls to ~7K with decent heads on a 2L.
On 112LC it will pull higher, just not as hard everywhere.

A Web 86, or at most an 86A on tight lobe centers to boost low end/midrange would be best upper limit.
The 86x series are based on an oem profile (GM Duntov Corvette iirc) so are relatively easy on the valvetrain.

A Web73 with a well executed and tuned EFI setup actually works pretty well with good heads.
Consider stroking it rather than a huge cam, much better plan on a one ton truck.

Short deck 93mm dished pistons exist (subaru) in a huge variety.
(23mm pin unless you go custom, there are easy ways around that)
93x78mm would have the absolute thickest cylinders you can run.
On a bus, it matters.
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

_flat4power_
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Re: choice for a camshaft

Post by _flat4power_ » Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:51 am

TZepeSH wrote:
_flat4power_ wrote:
I plan to boost my engine and the choice of the camshaft is determinant for the rest of configuration.
But you just said you want to boost it. Or supercharge it?
In any case, the camshaft and compression for NA or boost shall be different. Web 86a 494 163/86b will like 9:1-9.5:1, a bit too high if you plan to boost it later on.
sorry for my English
when I say boost you should unterstand upgrade :D

_flat4power_
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Re: choice for a camshaft

Post by _flat4power_ » Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:54 am

Piledriver wrote:A 119 really wants dual springs due to .500" lift at valve.
A 494 is also a pretty violent profile... if you intend this to last awhile, may need T1 lifters and bushings.
A 119 isn't exactly gentle either.

A 163/86b on std 104LC is not remotely a bus cam. It pulls to ~7K with decent heads on a 2L.
On 112LC it will pull higher, just not as hard everywhere.

A Web 86, or at most an 86A on tight lobe centers to boost low end/midrange would be best upper limit.
The 86x series are based on an oem profile (GM Duntov Corvette iirc) so are relatively easy on the valvetrain.

A Web73 with a well executed and tuned EFI setup actually works pretty well with good heads.
Consider stroking it rather than a huge cam, much better plan on a one ton truck.

Short deck 93mm dished pistons exist (subaru) in a huge variety.
(23mm pin unless you go custom, there are easy ways around that)
93x78mm would have the absolute thickest cylinders you can run.
On a bus, it matters.
thanks
all this help me for my choice
so 73 will be the "good" cam for my bus.
I have read about 73/73+2.5 - 108° LC and 73/86 -108°LC , have you some return ?

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Piledriver
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Re: choice for a camshaft

Post by Piledriver » Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:13 am

All should be good choices with a good exhaust system, a little extra exhaust duration helps a marginal exhaust.
Those may be Raby profiles, but the 73/86 should be orderable as its std lobes.
Haven't tried any of those variants personally.

Heat and a truly good exhaust are incompatible unless you have Eberspacher etc on your side.

If you do decide you stroke it, you can get away with a bit more cam, which helps with the inherent compression bump.

Everything is a compromise.
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_flat4power_
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Re: choice for a camshaft

Post by _flat4power_ » Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:36 am

I have a home made muffler like CSP python :
Image
it's a 4in1 with inox 2" and dynomax 17676.

I have a BA6 Inside the bus.

You think it's preferable to use j-tube ?

_flat4power_
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Re: choice for a camshaft

Post by _flat4power_ » Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:16 am

Hi,

what did you think about FC441 ?
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7kzK ... ZSTTBuOURR

thanks

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Piledriver
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Re: choice for a camshaft

Post by Piledriver » Sat Feb 18, 2017 1:47 am

I have not used that cam, I have only used Web camshafts sine my fiasco with lifters and dead cams.
Web nitrides their cams, which is why they cost more. I don't think anyone else does (Other than Raby)
Google for why you probably want that.

The Python shown appears to be a high quality variation of a cheap Thunderbird header.

The result when bolted to the original heat exchangers OR the more or less equal length HX "replacement" tubes as EMW makes will be very unequal length 4>1 with ~all the tubes way too long for proper "tuning".

OTOH, it may somewhat beat the NLA or expensive stock muffler, and at least sounds sportier.

The EMW pipes connected to a 914 Bursch header provides a reasonably equal length tri-Y and a 914 "Sebring" provides a 4>1 for a bit less money, the Bursch will probably need the muffler reoriented somewhat, the Sebring is a center exhaust straight out the back. All still too long, but the Bursch setup seems to work well.
The HX pipes or the Bursch will need "stretched" an inch or so to clear stock cooling as the 914 headers tuck in hard in the center.

If you had the urge to build another exhaust, a Bursch copy with larger primary dia (flanges out) would provide a nice stepped arrangement with probably better tuning.

For a lot less work and what really works properly, buy a setup from A1.
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

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saltgrinder
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Re: choice for a camshaft

Post by saltgrinder » Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:36 am

Piledriver wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:10 am
A 119 really wants dual springs due to .500" lift at valve.
A 494 is also a pretty violent profile... if you intend this to last awhile, may need T1 lifters and bushings.
A 119 isn't exactly gentle either.

A 163/86b on std 104LC is not remotely a bus cam. It pulls to ~7K with decent heads on a 2L.
On 112LC it will pull higher, just not as hard everywhere.

A Web 86, or at most an 86A on tight lobe centers to boost low end/midrange would be best upper limit.
The 86x series are based on an oem profile (GM Duntov Corvette iirc) so are relatively easy on the valvetrain.

A Web73 with a well executed and tuned EFI setup actually works pretty well with good heads.
Consider stroking it rather than a huge cam, much better plan on a one ton truck.

Short deck 93mm dished pistons exist (subaru) in a huge variety.
(23mm pin unless you go custom, there are easy ways around that)
93x78mm would have the absolute thickest cylinders you can run.
On a bus, it matters.
Hi Pile , A bit off topic but I've been ringing around here in OZ trying to find a set of 93mm Subi pistons for a build I'm doing and no one in this country has any fricken idea on a set of 93's for a Subaru .
It's becoming a bit frustrating , what model engine are you talking about ?
Richard

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Piledriver
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Re: choice for a camshaft

Post by Piledriver » Thu Feb 23, 2017 2:03 pm

EJ22 92mm is std bore, 93mm is 1mm OS
ej20 same bore shorter stroke

I'm pretty sure somebody sells 1mm OS Subaru pistons in Oz...
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

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saltgrinder
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Re: choice for a camshaft

Post by saltgrinder » Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:29 pm

Cool , I did explain this to a couple of vendors
I thought I was going crazy . I think people get a bit lost when you tell them "it's for a Volkswagen engine " that's when the confusion starts
I might go down to the local dealership today

Thanks Richard

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Piledriver
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Re: choice for a camshaft

Post by Piledriver » Fri Feb 24, 2017 2:09 am

Don't tell them what its FOR you will blow their little minds... :lol:
I'm not sure the dealer is going to offer much, but there are a huge variety of aftermarket pistons for them, go 4032 alloy if you want forged. (lasts ~like stock)

If you can GET 2nd oversize pistons from the dealer they are likely to cost more than aftermarket forged..

Getting the T4 rods rebushed and having them reamed to 23mm instead of 24mm should be easy/cheap.
(The bushings start out super thick so they can be pressed in)
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

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