Cam and lifter questions.

[jonas n]

I need your opinions, i have an used cam,just broken in. It has less then 5 hours runtime, everything looks fine but the guy who had IT mixed the lifters when he took the cam out. I think it's a 15 years old european motorworks cam, marked "01". Can i use Scat lube a lobe on this cam? I dont think it's a good Idea to use the old lifters..

[Piledriver]

I'd have the old lifters reground or at least polished and recoated vs new.
You know they are compatible with the cam.

The "keep lifter in same bore" thing only really works well in the same crankcase..

[Clatter]

I played and lost the cam roulette a few times,
But that was before we knew about the oil issues...

I'd gamble on a set of Scat Lose-a-Lobes done by SLR any day, as long as you run the right oil.

[Piledriver]

The SLR regrind (or polish as needed) and recoat is pretty cheap (was $50 last I checked, but it's been awhile...)
A lot less than a new set of lifters + having it done.
(I had a set of CB lightweight lifters done ages ago, I should probably use them )

I'm leery of those lifters even if SLR reground and coated: Their reputation stinks.
An ACVW spews oil down on the cam/lifters off the crank/rods in a major way, so while the lube a lobe setup has merit on V8s with the cam above the crank etc, it's just an extra place to fail on VWs.

[Clatter]

The SLR regrind (or polish as needed) and recoat is pretty cheap (was $50 last I checked, but it's been awhile...)
A lot less than a new set of lifters.

SLR regind parko polish was $22 last year...

Shipping from Europe would be more than that.

If those Scats are already done, why not run 'em?
(that's that it says on the box, and what they look like to me)

[Piledriver]

Given the vintage, those might be Johnsons lifters, even if you use the lose-a-lobes have them done. don't toss them...

I mentally kick my own as every time I think of all the good used factory lifters I tossed out of habit back in the day...
...but who could have known it would become an issue?

[Clatter]

If I am seeing Jonas's post right,

He has a set of used lifters,
_And_ a set of fresh Scats.
These Scats just came out of the box, behind, in the picture.
That box is what they ship lifters in, when they come from SLR.
The box says 'Scat' on it.
The lifters have the black face associated with the treatment SLR gives them.
Those are golden, IMHO. Ready to run.
Go, Jonas, Go...!

if you use the right oil, you *shouldn't* have any issues.

Jonas might be as worried about flat cams, as all of us were, just a few years ago.
Once the real issues were discovered - Things removed from the oil (Zinc?),
These flat cam issues went away, at least for me.

There might still be people who still get flat cams out there,
But,
It sure doesn't seem like the serious issue it once was..

[jonas n]

Ok i might throw in the new ones...or polish and use the old ones.. High quality oil and extra zink of course. The thing with this engine is to make a 4000km roadtrip through europe, so i'll use some soft springs since i can go on low rpm's.

[raygreenwood]

So I am going to expand on that question. In the next 3 months I should be FINALLY starting assembly of my 412 engine....its been a 10 +year project.

So I have one of the very last 9550 complete cam kits bought from the type 4 store probably within 6 months of Jake selling it.

It came with what appear to be Skat Lube-a-lobes....with the little hole in them.

Everything else I have ever bought from the type 4 store when Jake owned it...was top notch. I can only maker the assumption that the lifters should have "0" issues with the cam ....or Jake would not sell them to work with the cam.

So the question...has anyone EVER REALLY had issues with the lube-a-lobe lifters with Webcam based type 4 cams?

I have another option. I have a full set of original Johnson made lifters that were running on my Web #73...when it died. They have about 80K miles on them and look pristine...not a mark or a pit on them. The cam itself looks great too.

So would you use the brand new 9550 cam with the lube-a-lobes that were sent/matched to it from the kit designer/vendor...or would you send the older Johnson lifters back to Web Cam and have them resurfaced...and when Web resurfaces these....do they come back with re-hardened faces? Ray

[Clatter]

So I am going to expand on that question. In the next 3 months I should be FINALLY starting assembly of my 412 engine....its been a 10 +year project.

So I have one of the very last 9550 complete cam kits bought from the type 4 store probably within 6 months of Jake selling it.

It came with what appear to be Skat Lube-a-lobes....with the little hole in them.

Everything else I have ever bought from the type 4 store when Jake owned it...was top notch. I can only maker the assumption that the lifters should have "0" issues with the cam ....or Jake would not sell them to work with the cam.

So the question...has anyone EVER REALLY had issues with the lube-a-lobe lifters with Webcam based type 4 cams?

I have another option. I have a full set of original Johnson made lifters that were running on my Web #73...when it died. They have about 80K miles on them and look pristine...not a mark or a pit on them. The cam itself looks great too.

So would you use the brand new 9550 cam with the lube-a-lobes that were sent/matched to it from the kit designer/vendor...or would you send the older Johnson lifters back to Web Cam and have them resurfaced...and when Web resurfaces these....do they come back with re-hardened faces? Ray

If you are 100% sure that those lifters came with that cam kit, then that's your way to go.

Regardless of what any of us might say about these or that lifters and cam,
You can bet that Jake was making sure that -that batch- of lifters would work the that particular cam.

Using any other lifters throws unknowns into the equation..

[raygreenwood]

Yes.....all bought at the same time from the type 4 store. ...all came in the same box. It was the deluxe cam kit......studs, spacers, pushrods, 911 adjusters, gear, springs, retainers .......everything. This was bought in either mid to late 2009 or early 2010.

I should I guess.....also contact Web Cam and ask their opinion. I am only pondering this because it was around that period of time......that we had already been hearing about some of the first issues with the Lube-a-lobe lifters.......but at that point in time......I was only hearing about issues with type 1 lifters.....and in 2005/2007....Jake was still experimenting with Ceramics.
And.....in reading as much as I could about various lube-a-lobe failures in threads (in the two years prior to buying this kit and also after recieving several years later). ....99% of the time.....it was not clear from those claiming failures......had used correct oil.....had correct or adequate geometry.....or had excessive or adequate or excessive spring pressure.

So when my cam kit was bought ....probably 6 months to a year before Jake sold the store.....I was mildly suprised to find Lube-a-lobes in the kit. I bought the kit when I did knowing it may be a year or so before I used it.....because Jake had just announced that he was going to quit selling kits of any kind.

So fast forward.....6 years... .......and I STILL see some complaints about Lube-a-lobe. ....and still primarily from type 1 based engine builders.....and still 99% of the time there are unanswered questions about oil, geometry and spring pressures.....any and all of which could cause failure and pitting which have nothing to do with the lifter design itself. Ray