Mike's 1800cc Type IV build

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Mueller
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Mike's 1800cc Type IV build

Post by Mueller » Tue Jul 05, 2016 11:02 pm

Motor is going into my '73 914 to replace the blown 2.0 Bus motor (previous owner installed a hydralic lifter bus motor in it, not me!) , I paid $500 for this motor it being supposedly rebuilt a few years ago and then replaced with a 2.0 since the owner couldn't get the FI working correctly after spending tons of money on it.

One exhaust stud per cylinder is broken, I ended up taking the heads off to inspect the motor better and ended up deciding to do a cam swap and some upgrades, nothing too crazy. I'll save that for the 2.0 bus case if still salvageable.

All the tin was black powder coated when I got it and it appears to be fairly fresh rebuild as claimed due to how clean some parts of the motor was as well as how easy to remove the hardware. Besides the broken studs and the slight damage to the cylinder heads from the head gaskets the heads are in great shape.

Mods:
RAT 9600 cam
Type IV Store lifters and chromoly push rods
911 valve adjuster
European Racing Header (or something even cheaper, needs repairing!)

I've included a picture of the stock cam I pulled from the motor.

Still undecided on fuel managment, I have a complete L-Jet for it yet have not heard whether or not it will work with that camshaft. If all else fails I have a complete Megasquirt for it and can do plenum or ITBs, I am also looking at trading one of my Megasquirt setups for a set of real Weber 40 carbs with a fellow 914 owner.

I look forward to learning more about this motor and building it from the pros and diy'ers alike.

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Piledriver
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Re: Mike's 1800cc Type IV build

Post by Piledriver » Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:25 am

Pretty typical high mileage cam wear, once the lifters lose their ground in radii the edges start wearing the grooves in the center of the lobe. Oddly, I have seen them go hundreds of thousands of miles like that.

OTOH I have seen new, aftermarket stock "replacement" lifters with no radius...
That will not end well.
May not even begin well.

The 1.8 heads will be a good starting point for the next motor.

Be wary of loose ex studs, sometimes they loosen due to cracks.
Broken off is just broken off, they wouldn't have broken off if they were loose, so pretend it's a good thing.
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

Mueller
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Re: Mike's 1800cc Type IV build

Post by Mueller » Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:54 pm

For the valves and seats, is this still recommended info as found on ratwell.com?
On a Type 4 head, VW specified 15/30/75 for the intake valve seat and 15/45/75 for the exhaust valve

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Piledriver
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Re: Mike's 1800cc Type IV build

Post by Piledriver » Tue Jul 19, 2016 9:48 pm

Mueller wrote:For the valves and seats, is this still recommended info as found on ratwell.com?
On a Type 4 head, VW specified 15/30/75 for the intake valve seat and 15/45/75 for the exhaust valve

I have seen that//has been discussed previously, but AFAIK ~the 15/45/75 is used on both, sometimes with a 30 degree backgrind on the ex valve for better blowdown flow.
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

Mueller
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Re: Mike's 1800cc Type IV build

Post by Mueller » Tue Oct 18, 2016 12:01 pm

Progress finally. Well sort of, bought some new parts and now to fix the broken exhaust studs. Made this fixture last night, still mocking it all up before I make chips out of the old studs.

Any recommendations for new valve springs to go along with my 9600 camshaft?

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/phot ... uyskdeG_gE

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/phot ... 9G63fOG-wE

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/phot ... 8piLoZSaRg

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Piledriver
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Re: Mike's 1800cc Type IV build

Post by Piledriver » Tue Oct 18, 2016 12:14 pm

FWIW, I have run Webers, CIS, and Megasquirt 2 and 3+MS3X setups.(as well as MS2+MS3X)

ITBs sound cool. The Webers were a PITA to keep the idle jets clear with the std air cleaners, even sealed up well.
A really good linkage makes it easy to keep dual synchronized, but I will never go back to carbs.
I only keep carbs and a distributor for breaking in engines, and I may not bother with that now that I have a good handle on MS setup. I may use the Webers as ITBs..
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

H2OSB
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Re: Mike's 1800cc Type IV build

Post by H2OSB » Tue Oct 18, 2016 12:19 pm

Following.

wreck
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Re: Mike's 1800cc Type IV build

Post by wreck » Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:56 pm

the TC-1 CHT Gauge are good but you need to run the thermocouples well away from spark plug leads and any form of current flow unless you have very good shielding . There is a fair bit of info on fitting the thermocouples on this forum if you search .
Type 4's are a pain because of the plug recess. I've used the devcon (JB Weld) to the head method and run the leads under the tin and exited out the front , well away from the plug leads .
No matter where you go , there you are !

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Clatter
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Re: Mike's 1800cc Type IV build

Post by Clatter » Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:44 am

That is a sweet fixture you built there..

Always wanted one of those.

Another use for it would be to oval-interpolate (is that a word?) a finish pass to cleanup the exhaust gasket sealing surface..
"Oh, You don't need to do all that... The valve seats are just going to fall out of it anyway!"
- Doug Ellsworth

Beginners' how-to Type 4 build thread ---> viewtopic.php?f=1&t=145853

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CobraJet
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Re: Mike's 1800cc Type IV build

Post by CobraJet » Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:12 am

Any news?

Mueller
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Re: Mike's 1800cc Type IV build

Post by Mueller » Sun Jun 11, 2017 1:34 pm

A few updates.

Called LN Engineering about my 9600 camshaft....and got someone that had the cam card!
Recommended dual (with a little hesitation which makes me nervous?)

Specs:
.335 IN
.400 EX
Duration 290°
@ .050" 252° IN
@ .050" 254° EX

Looking at the Web Cam catalog, it looks similar to the 86a (below) except for intake lift, I hope it was a misprint or I didn't hear her correctly. Web Cam doesn't show any cams with that small of an intake lift!

QUOTE
.435/.435 290°/290° 252°/252° 86a N/A N/A
00-232
Strong mid and upper end performance for high performance street engines. WEB CAM mechanical lifters required. Requires
Performance Valve Spring Kit, and New Lifters Part #00-265. (single valve springs)

I think I will measure the lift just to make sure.

Also, I couldn't pass these up for $100 for everything in the picture. 42mm diameter

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Piledriver
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Re: Mike's 1800cc Type IV build

Post by Piledriver » Sun Jun 11, 2017 2:10 pm

SCORE!
Those are excellent!
I welded ears on the manifolds to bolt those on.

Were they the Yamaha Jet Ski or R1 TBs?
(mine were off the Jet Ski version of the motor)

I reused the fuel rails, the spacing was close enough.
You can probably cut it in the middle and flare it a tiny bit for hose retention.
(Mine were all SS so I TIG'd fittings on them)

I had two sets, so I had two pulleys... Easy cable pull setup.
Devastator makes a pulley for the GSXR TBS that may be the right size for the second one.
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

Mueller
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Re: Mike's 1800cc Type IV build

Post by Mueller » Sun Jun 11, 2017 2:28 pm

GSX 750 from the old ad.

I was wonder if I'd be better off adding injector bungs to the manifolds to move the injectors down closer to the heads like the stock FI?

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CobraJet
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Re: Mike's 1800cc Type IV build

Post by CobraJet » Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:39 pm

The closer to the valve the better!

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Piledriver
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Re: Mike's 1800cc Type IV build

Post by Piledriver » Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:09 pm

My bad, from that angle they look about the same.
The R1/waverunner TBS are true ITB and flanged, and the Weber spacing works.

Hit Devastator up for the second pulley for the GSXRs.

For anything but WOT high RPM, the close in injector location is preferred, somewhat better idle/economy/drivability aimed right, but the ITB locations will work.
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

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