OK,
All of this talk about cams has me on the fence again...
My car is an extra heavy full-bodied type 3.
The trans is a 923 from a 912E, and the brakes and wheels are from a 944T.
It will be used on the street, but, rarely, and often in anger.
So, it's really a toy,
but,
The place I live has some of the slowest traffic on earth.
Often, I will run for an hour without getting past second gear.
The motor will likely spend 90% of it's time at idle, crawling from light to light.
Lights here can turn from green to red two or three times before you get your turn to go through.
Motor:
78 DPR, 2.0 journal, 5.4 China H-beams.
Thinking I will go full-size base circle and do what I have to...?
KB 96 flat-tops.
2.0 heads, thin-stem Manleys, 3 angles, mild porting, etc.
It will have a set of 44 Webers for now, but maybe EFI later.
The plan is to have a really good header made for it.
Was going to take it to A1, maybe mod a CSP, or is Tangerine still around?
(any ideas there? Sidewinder?)
Anyhow,
The idea was always to get a 163/86b,
But,
86b/86c, maybe?
I can build any CR I want..
Have an 86b in my 1914cc type 1,
And it hasn't proven cantankerous, just right actually.
So,
Really tempted to go and buy a 163/86b,
But can't help but feel like I'll be leaving power on the table.
Type 4s seem to have so much more grunt that a type 1,
So it seems like you can run relatively more cam...
Web recommended a 163/86b for my 2056 with heater boxes(!)
Yet,
The car is so heavy, the gearing so high, and the traffic is so bad.
But,
It will be built all the way through, with a big exhaust and tons of CR.
What you guys think?
Any ideas? Lobe center change?
86b/86c on 105lc?
Cam and exhaust are all that's left on this one.. And I can't make a decision!
Help Me Pick a Cam
- Clatter
- Posts: 2033
- Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2002 1:01 am
Help Me Pick a Cam
Speedier than a Fasting Bullet!
Beginners' how-to Type 4 build thread ---> http://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=145853
Beginners' how-to Type 4 build thread ---> http://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=145853
- Piledriver
- Moderator
- Posts: 22518
- Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 12:01 am
Re: Help Me Pick a Cam
163/86B@104, with as much head as you can afford and 10.5:1 on premium fuel only.
44x38, 30 degree backcut on exhaust valves, faster blowdown.(low lift ex flow is better.)
The narrow LC increases dynamic CR, and pulls in the powerband some.
On a 2270 a 86B/86C may be viable, but I'd be hesitant due to drivability concerns due to fat chick, particularly with traffic as described. ITB/EFI/crank trigger suggested, perhaps dual sidedraft setup, cold-air fed center air cleaner/airbox, always wanted to try that.
If you want/need to run regular, keep it at/under 9.5:1 static, 9:1... or even less will ~work given good tight deck/squish..
Needs a really good exhaust to really sing, think A1.(not sidewinder, even tho the packaging works better, sucked in Jakes testing esp in midrange due to runners at exactly the wrong length)
Tiger did a slick "under the trans" setup for a 914 I saw pics of on Jakes old (private) forum, raises some possibilities on a T3 unless you are slamming it. perhaps bigass muffler behind axles just ahead of motor, going across, t3s lack much room for that otherwise due to the cooling ducts)
Installing something along those lines soon if it stops raining every. freaking. weekend.
no garage sucks, lying in cold mud sucks worse.
44x38, 30 degree backcut on exhaust valves, faster blowdown.(low lift ex flow is better.)
The narrow LC increases dynamic CR, and pulls in the powerband some.
On a 2270 a 86B/86C may be viable, but I'd be hesitant due to drivability concerns due to fat chick, particularly with traffic as described. ITB/EFI/crank trigger suggested, perhaps dual sidedraft setup, cold-air fed center air cleaner/airbox, always wanted to try that.
If you want/need to run regular, keep it at/under 9.5:1 static, 9:1... or even less will ~work given good tight deck/squish..
Needs a really good exhaust to really sing, think A1.(not sidewinder, even tho the packaging works better, sucked in Jakes testing esp in midrange due to runners at exactly the wrong length)
Tiger did a slick "under the trans" setup for a 914 I saw pics of on Jakes old (private) forum, raises some possibilities on a T3 unless you are slamming it. perhaps bigass muffler behind axles just ahead of motor, going across, t3s lack much room for that otherwise due to the cooling ducts)
Installing something along those lines soon if it stops raining every. freaking. weekend.
no garage sucks, lying in cold mud sucks worse.
Last edited by Piledriver on Thu Dec 10, 2015 10:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
- Clatter
- Posts: 2033
- Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2002 1:01 am
Re: Help Me Pick a Cam
Piledriver wrote:no garage sucks, lying in cold mud sucks worse.
Garage=Mandatory.
House=Optional.
Sounds like somebody needs a divorce!
Seriously, I totally appreciate your input.. Few people speak this language fluently.
Was really hoping Nate could share his latest cam spec;
He's keeping it a secret for some reason.
Just talked to Web (again) and they say the 163/86b is ground on 104 lc vs. 108 like all of the others.
Guessing that if i go all the way to 44 x 38 on the valves, the 1 7/8" exhaust comes into play.
Oh, those Tangerine headers are so beautiful.....
Hard to buy an exhaust that will cost more than i paid for the car itself.
Here's one for a Thing,
Would be cool to use that skinny muffler only flipped over, for ground/cooling boot clearance..
MMmmmmm.....
Speedier than a Fasting Bullet!
Beginners' how-to Type 4 build thread ---> http://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=145853
Beginners' how-to Type 4 build thread ---> http://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=145853
- Piledriver
- Moderator
- Posts: 22518
- Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 12:01 am
Re: Help Me Pick a Cam
Nates modded 911 muffler looks like it fits/works well too.
As to the Tangerine header:
If I had something that purty and expensive I'd want to frame it and hang it on the wall as art.
The A1s make mo powa anyway, and reasonable cost.
I think Tiger will even make you one in stainless for ~half what the Tangerine costs.
As to the Tangerine header:
If I had something that purty and expensive I'd want to frame it and hang it on the wall as art.
The A1s make mo powa anyway, and reasonable cost.
I think Tiger will even make you one in stainless for ~half what the Tangerine costs.
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
- Clatter
- Posts: 2033
- Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2002 1:01 am
Re: Help Me Pick a Cam
Wouldn't 44 x 38 be shrouded by little 'ol 96mm jugs?
Always thought there was a point of significantly diminished returns once you went over 44 x 42 unless you went with big jugs.
This would put me into Nickies territory, and beyond what a guy with a job could afford.
Unless a relative dies or something... That ain't in the cards
Still,
All sizes of valves/seats cost the same.
44 x 38 and 1 7/8", or 1 3/4"?
Isn't 1 7/8" for racing and/or BIG displacement..?
Always thought there was a point of significantly diminished returns once you went over 44 x 42 unless you went with big jugs.
This would put me into Nickies territory, and beyond what a guy with a job could afford.
Unless a relative dies or something... That ain't in the cards
Still,
All sizes of valves/seats cost the same.
44 x 38 and 1 7/8", or 1 3/4"?
Isn't 1 7/8" for racing and/or BIG displacement..?
Speedier than a Fasting Bullet!
Beginners' how-to Type 4 build thread ---> http://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=145853
Beginners' how-to Type 4 build thread ---> http://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=145853
- Clatter
- Posts: 2033
- Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2002 1:01 am
Re: Help Me Pick a Cam
With heat, even...
There's my muffler, too.
MMMmmmm.......
There's my muffler, too.
MMMmmmm.......
Speedier than a Fasting Bullet!
Beginners' how-to Type 4 build thread ---> http://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=145853
Beginners' how-to Type 4 build thread ---> http://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=145853
- Piledriver
- Moderator
- Posts: 22518
- Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 12:01 am
Re: Help Me Pick a Cam
1 3/4" would probably be fine.
The stubs can be 1 5/8" and step up at the flange.
The stubs can be 1 5/8" and step up at the flange.
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.