upright turbo build

[Piledriver]

Dumb question, lets say I go for a long rod setup and my total length is 205.5mm. How do I make up that difference of 3mm? I can't shim it that much can I?

3mm is not much at all.
EMW will make you shims any size you like, that's how you build a long rod stroker.
They also sell hd replacement head studs that are at least 1/2" longer than stock for good reason.
AA 96mm jugs are ~3mm longer anyway.

If you use dished pistons you can usually take some off the top as well, as long as you aren't thinning the pistons top deck. VW bus pistons are a good example.

[tonyorlo]

Pile, your always mentioning the piston aligned rod setup. Would it be possible to piston align T1 Pistons with T1 rods? Off the shelf parts. I don't know if the inside of the piston has a machined surface, I have a contact that would be able to clean the surface up on a mill so I could measure and shim to tolerance.

Good thread on the subject of 1.8 Pistons

http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic ... 3&start=15

I came across it when searching about re bushing my 1.8 rods to 22mm.

[Piledriver]

Mahles have an iffy heavily tapered area between/around the pins, at least for this purpose.
Ideally you want at least a small flat spot for the shims and rod loads to run against. This is why I proposed the 96mm Volvos, as at least some of them ran piston aligned rods from the factory.

Many forged pistons have a large flat area under/above the pins that would just need machined flat/square to the pins, and aluminum spacers, preferably with some oiling holes and grooves inside to feed the rod bushing.

I'd love to do that myself but I have a hard time getting to the projects I already have going.

[tonyorlo]

Well I dropped off my heads to a local engine shop. I had them do machine work on my ford 2.3 last year and I was very pleased. They were familiar with VWs and had a few engines in thier shop, so that made me feel better. They are going to check my heads out and give me a price on having them gone over.

We also talked about cleaning my case. What is the best method to clean the corrosion off of it? I put it through the parts washer a few times and have all the grease and grime off of it.

[Piledriver]

Blast.
Plastic media, soda, CO2, crushed walnut hulls, or lots of elbow grease.

[Clatter]

My new favorite is 'vapor blast'.
It's glass bead media in water..

Peens the surface vs. etching it, so any future corrosion is kept at bay.

Be sure to pull all of your galley plugs after blasting.
Crap can hide in there forever.

[tonyorlo]

Ok I'm glad you guys are suggesting blasting. That's what the shop owner said he would do. I've read that some are for it and some are against it. I've already filed and sanded all the castings off of it, I was planning on using a small wire wheel, but man blasting would be so much easier.

I've never heard of vapor blasting, I seriously doubt anyone in my area offers it. It does sound like a good method it makes much more sense not etching the surface. That's just asking for corrosion.

When I have this done, should I pull all of my oil galley plugs out, or leave them in? I'm going to pull them and still and tap them eventually. Also what's the general consensus on painting a case? Good or bad idea?

[Steve Arndt]

Dry ice blasting. There is no media left to foul oil galleys. It sublimates and goes into the atmosphere.
As the CO2 phase changes upon impact it creates micro shock waves which assist in the cleaning action. Like cavitation on a propeller or impeller but the erosion effect is captured for good use.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrHchu1tNyc

[tonyorlo]

I have a friend who works in fire and water damage restoration in homes, and they use dry ice blasting in some fire damage situations. I've tried to line it up with him to do it, but it's so random when it happens. They only order dry ice for the job, they don't keep it on hand. I wish I could find someone else locally that can do it.

[Piledriver]

A LOT of machine shops have CO2 blasting rigs around here, or know who does and sends them work as it pops up.
Same for CNC laser and plasma/waterjet etc...
--- Not every shop can justify having or have room for all possible toys, so they send each other work as needed.

We even have a tiny one at work (cryo clean) that runs off a CO2 bottle, makes its own "snow" inline.
It's basically all in the gun...
Can be used to clean semiconductor wafers, cooked on negative photoresist etc.
It doesn't have enough output volume to be useful except on small, hideously expensive items.
Would probably be great for a jewellery store that does cleaning/repair work.

[tonyorlo]

Got a question, the shop I took my heads to told me they are bus heads, should I ditch them in favor of 914 heads? The turbo should of help overcome some of the inefficiencies of the heads, but is it going to hurt me on power alot? I figure it would help with compression. They quoted me at $430 for a complete rebuild which doesn't sound bad to me at all.

They are also going to blast the case for me.

Now that the sites back up I can finally research it on here! They called me 2 weeks ago and Ive been dangling them along until I could come on here lol.

[Piledriver]

Got a question, the shop I took my heads to told me they are bus heads, should I ditch them in favor of 914 heads? The turbo should of help overcome some of the inefficiencies of the heads, but is it going to hurt me on power alot? I figure it would help with compression. They quoted me at $430 for a complete rebuild which doesn't sound bad to me at all.

They are also going to blast the case for me.

Now that the sites back up I can finally research it on here! They called me 2 weeks ago and Ive been dangling them along until I could come on here lol.

If they have the tiny valves you might consider upgrading, the bus heads tend to have been overheated many times and suffer badly from loose seats, do the bake and shake test to make sure they don't fall out before spending anything on them. (the machine shop can probably do this for you)
...Heat to 400 then drop valves down on table, rattle with a hammer etc valves out of course, if the seats move or fall out they all need replaced, and bigger seats cost the same.

914 heads are not all that and usually need the seats replaced as well, and they crack easily, expensive to fix right.

You should consider bigger valves with new seats, and a porting job, the Bus heads can be ported to the same size as the 1.8 or 2L heads. Headflow Masters will still "do" bus heads, and Adrian knows T4 heads.

1.7L heads flow better than the bus heads with the same valves, and usually don't lose seats.
I'm strongly looking at building a heavily boosted 2.1L using 1700 heads with a modified head seal setup at the head outer surface (shortened jug tops 100x66)

[tonyorlo]

I know they pressure tested the heads for cracks and it passed. The $430 inlcuded new seats and valves. So if they do replace the seats, should I still be concerned about them being loose and potentialy dropping one? I am sure I could have the shop increase the valve size, how far can I safely go with 1.8 heads?

I contacted Adrian, and he estimated $450 per head. I didnt ask for any port work with that quote either. Thats close to a set of DRD heads for what ever thats worth. Ive also seriously considered Brothers Machine Shop.

I might be able to score a set of 1.7 heads from 914world if they are worth it.

Once again, thanks for the help Pile!

[Piledriver]

That's a great price if they know what they are doing.
Chevy heads are very unlike T4 heads... especially port design...
...and the required interference fit for seats in aircooled heads.
If they do HD heads they are probably clued into the latter.
T4 intakes are more like big OHC 2V old school, nice almost straight shot.
The exhausts--- Advice HAM once gave was don't try to make a short side radius. Just don't, not even break the edge. Go up. Trim the guide "shield" area off--- esp for turbo. The guide boss goes away.

The biggest risk are likely cracks found under the ex seats, that don't leak to the outside world, but do loosen the grip on the seat.

I44xE36 or 38, maybe I46, but needs T4 experienced porting to use those effectively, and THAT will set you back at least 400 by itself, unless you are nuts like me.

Valves/seats are all the same price as is the required machining... but not the required porting.

Big `ol valves require dual springs. Adds up.

I would lean towards 36 exhaust w/30 degree backcut valves due to deck thickness. The slightly smaller backcut valves *will probably blow down better.


Note:You tend to get what you pay for.



(*in the amusement park of my mind, thank you George Clinton)

[bj]

EMW did my heads...but 2.0l heads with 44x38 valves...new ex studs...hd intake studs...was about $1k...no porting no 914 chamber/plugs and no cracks/repairs needed. these motors get pricey quick!

BJ