Heat in a bug with a Type IV Engine

Steve Arndt · Post by **Steve Arndt** » Fri Sep 28, 2001 3:55 pm

klaus

Steve Arndt · Post by **Steve Arndt** » Fri Sep 28, 2001 4:02 pm

I run a Stuart-Warner gas heater in my baja bug. I built a PVC manifold to distribute the hot air to ALL the factory 1976 bug dash vents. Besides having to replace my windshield every month in the winter because it melts, it works nice

jj
Steve

ray greenwood · Post by **ray greenwood** » Fri Sep 28, 2001 4:50 pm

The factory type 1's I have seen running eberspachers..used a chamber similar to the bay window in size and length. The difference was in the fuel pump calibration...which is easy...and the in line thermostat...which kicks off sooner. The heater was installed behind the dash in the trunk....which even with all of the safety features...thermostats...ground loops...high limit switches...it still scares the hell out of me having an open flame 2.5 inches from the fuel tank. I helped install one a long time ago...on a 73 super...behind the back seat. We added a piece of sheet metal on the back of the seat and above it, to make a back deck. Effectively creating a fire wall. Intake of air was from two round holes cut for standard hoses from heater boxes....and went out from two more holes behind seat to the heater channels. In retrospect...it would have been easier to leave the existing heater hooked up to warm your feet...pull new air into the eberspacher from underneath..and just vent the heat from two new vent holes in the top of the back deck into the passenger compartment. Worked great either way. We used a piece of stainless tube welded onto the type four exhaust pipe stub for exhaust. Ray

Single Cab · Post by **Single Cab** » Fri Sep 28, 2001 5:34 pm

That would be the early bay window style that was mounted in the left side of the engine compartment. The later bay window style was mounted between the frame rails under the middle seat area of the cargo floor. I think it would be a challenge to mount that one under the hood even in a super beetle. If you were able to do that I would love to see pics of the install.

Thomas

ray greenwood · Post by **ray greenwood** » Mon Oct 01, 2001 5:01 pm

Single cab...the system I saw in the front of several bugs is the later model...or similar to it. IT has high limit switch, external blower unit...same part # as type 4 w/flame arrestor...external metering pump, internal pyrometer probe, combination glow/sparkplug. The one I worked on was a factory install in the front end of a 69. The one I installed in the back area of a bug was out of a type 4. I have only a couple of times worked with the cylindrical model you are refering to, that normally is found on the left side of the bus engine compartment. It is much simpler, but with its fuel metering diaphrams...which sooner or later go bad...and are impossible to find...except at that place in colorado...I kind of stay away from them. They don't have any high limit switches that I know of either. I actually know where quite a few of those are. Ray

Single Cab · Post by **Single Cab** » Mon Oct 01, 2001 6:27 pm

Ray,

I've been looking for a pic of the heater timer and just got this from the Thing list:

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 00:32:25 +0000
From: Michael P. Basso
Subject: RE: Heatermans address

Paul Kagel wrote:
> i can't seem to get his wep page up either but the newest issue of the
> thing registry i believe has a number in it.

His phone number was in that last posting, along with his address.

Snip>
Hello, Mike,
You do not see me at the shows this year.
I have a good news for your friends: 15 electronic timers, like the one
you
bought are for sale at $70 each, shipping included.

I also offer 10 absolutely new modern German fuel pumps for BN4 heater.
The
pump is of far better design!. SOLD WITH ELECTRONIC CONTROLLER. Kit
price
$175 each, which is also a steal.

Kind regards,
Ark Mirvis - "The Heaterman"
31 Byram Bay Road
Hopatcong, NJ 07843
Tel: (973) 398-6363

end>

I will check on the website, but it doesnt have much more than that on
it anyway.
Only a picture of the digital timer. Which I can send one to you if you
want to see it.
I originally paid $125 for the timer,
it has an alarm and a clock also built into it.
It has presets to make your heater come on before you get in.

here is his email address:
[email protected] (ARKADY MIRVIS)

[This message has been edited by Single Cab (edited 10-01-2001).]

ray greenwood · Post by **ray greenwood** » Tue Oct 02, 2001 8:28 am

Single cab...Very cool timer!...Wonder how it wires in? The link with the comment about the fuel pumps was interesting. New and improved fuel pumps? Never had problems with old ones. The only possible problem I found was internal rust. Clearing the pump by running the heater for a few minutes every couple of months takes care of that. The most common problem...and it hides as a fuel pump problem for a while, are the trigger points that run off the ends of the main blower motor...one for the glow plug...one for the pump. After a while the solder on the capacitor contacts corrode (actually an inductor) or the points get greasy. This keeps either the fuel pump or the glow plug from igniting...but hey!, I'm up for anything new and improved. But I have a bucket of the older pumps to go through first. Thanks for the pic! Ray

Single Cab · Post by **Single Cab** » Tue Oct 02, 2001 2:22 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ray greenwood:
But I have a bucket of the older pumps to go through first. Thanks for the pic! Ray<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Heh, I have a bunch too. Funny how that works. I love finding an old 411/412 in the yard as most people either don't know about the gas heater or are too lazy to crawl under there and get it.

BTW I have a printed copy of the repair manual for these particular heters. I might have downloaded it from type2.com.

Thomas

Bob Ingman · Post by **Bob Ingman** » Tue Oct 02, 2001 2:57 pm

Ray, Single Cab
As far as the heater timer switch is concerned it is not really needed. The timer switch on my Thing malfunctioned and melted itself. After pricing these things, I contacted Heaterman asking how to bypass it in favor of a toggle. His response was simply run the grey wire to the toggle and a hot wire to the opposite side of the toggle.
Now I`m a happy camper. I like the low tech simplicity of the toggle. When I want heat I throw the switch and again to turn it off, It still has about a 2-3 minute cool off on shut down just as before.Good Luck. Bob

Eddie Brown · Post by **Eddie Brown** » Tue Oct 02, 2001 8:07 pm

Hello everyone, I had a performance question regarding heater boxes. I'm currenty building a 2.6 L T4, Will the heater boxes bring down the HP/Torque dramatically ? I'm using 2 L bus heads (44x36), 44IDF. Any input will be greatly appreciated since this is my first T4 project.

Thanks,

Eddie
Bakersfield, Ca

ray greenwood · Post by **ray greenwood** » Wed Oct 03, 2001 10:10 am

Single cab...WOW you melted a timer box? Yeah ..it really is just a switch...but I do like the thermostat setting functions for long highway drives....and the basic strange technology of it always suprises people when they ride with me. They are always "appalled" to think that there is actually a 2' long flame operating somewhere behind their back. I always ask them if they sleep at night with the house heater running out in that closet in the garage at home...whats the difference? Ray

Single Cab · Post by **Single Cab** » Wed Oct 03, 2001 4:15 pm

That wasn't me but it's scary none the less when you consider that the timer switch on a Thing mounts just above the fuse box. I love it when people hear about the gas heater and ask if it's safe...

Thomas

Bob Ingman · Post by **Bob Ingman** » Wed Oct 03, 2001 4:56 pm

Ray, That was me that had the heater switch manfunction. I`ll tell you that it melted the face off my speedo, melted everything in the glove compartment , melted the logo off my steering wheel, melted my flashers, headlight relay,ect ,ect. Now heres what was really scarry about it. As you might know the heater is located above the gas tank in the Thing and the car was parked by two propane tanks each larger than the vehicle itself. Twenty of were sleeping in the bunkhouse nearby(way too near). Beleive me I never mentioned it to a soul but I did utter a prayer of thanks to our Maker. Do you have the feeling we`re somehow exceeding the scope of this thread here? Moral of story ,do`nt worry about gas heater and gas tank proxsimity. That heater ran the gas tank dry with the curtains on and no fire. Good Luck. Bob

[This message has been edited by Bob Ingman (edited 10-03-2001).]

ray greenwood · Post by **ray greenwood** » Wed Oct 03, 2001 4:58 pm

Ah sorry I was skimming again...so Bob...did you ever figure out why the timer box melted down?....Maybe its something I should be watching for? The only thing scary about the gas heater is the first five minutes of the cold season when you havn't started it in a while...that smell of heating metal, burning cobwebs and dust...alwayd makes you mentally run through what you did and didn't do to get prepped for the winter. I just found that its easier to spend an hour each year to replace the fuel line (until I put a steel one in) now I just check the unions, glow plug and all the wires and of course, the exhaust pipe joint....so I KNOW all is well when I smell the first hint of hot metal. It always goes away...and its always warm in my car. Ray

Bob Ingman · Post by **Bob Ingman** » Wed Oct 03, 2001 5:09 pm

Ray, No, there was no way to diagnose the switch. I guess it just got old and wore out like the rest of us. BTW the toggle uses the orfice vacated by the timer/switch. Good Luck. Bob

[This message has been edited by Bob Ingman (edited 10-03-2001).]