My first type4, probably 2056

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TZepeSH
Posts: 239
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:55 am

Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by TZepeSH » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:30 am

New parts are in. Pics speak for themselves.
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TZepeSH
Posts: 239
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:55 am

Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by TZepeSH » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:35 am

And some more. I missed and ordered only one set of rocker block shims, but the second set will be delivered soon.
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And I have a problem: the pulley does not center on the type 4 hub, there is a large gap. Did anybody have any issues with the CSP part?
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TZepeSH
Posts: 239
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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by TZepeSH » Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:16 am

I got another hub, the aluminum pulley fits very well. Now that I think about it I remember to have milled it when I first started to work on the engine and I wanted to use a steel type 1 pulley. So it was milled to the interior diameter of the pulley...
How shall I proceed with changing the stock rocker studs to type1 racing studs? Double nut to remove them (they seem quite hard to remove, use some heat too?)? The racing studs are 8mm but near the boss where the head thread ends there is a 10mm diameter part (maybe 10mm high). Shall I drill a 10mm step in the rocker shafts, or mill the studs to 8mm on all length (I think this would weaken them)?

TZepeSH
Posts: 239
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:55 am

Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by TZepeSH » Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:45 am

The rocker studs came out easily with double nuts. Now I have another question. As you can see in the picture below, the 10mm threaded part on the "racing" studs (bottom) is much longer than on the original stud. I measured it, 26mm. The holes in the head are only 25mm deep. The thread on the original studs is only 15mm. They were threaded in till the arrow, so the 8mm part after thread was inside the hole. That made the studs a bit too short, I could barely put some nuts on. Using the new studs, I guess I have to cut them down a bit, maybe to 20mm threaded part, and leave the 100 "boss" out of the hole, to help center the shaft holders. Again my guess would be that I have to thread them in such that the 9mm boss would stick out just for the thickness of the rocker shaft holder (an drill it to 9mm), meaning 4mm (plus 1.53mm spacers), and NOT drill the rocker arm to 10mm for a few mm. Did I get this right? I tried to sketch how to install.
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wreck
Posts: 211
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Location: Brisbane Australia

Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by wreck » Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:16 am

sounds right to me , I did something similar , as long as you have a close fit of the stud and the rocker shaft "holder" so you can locate them and shim the rockers with solid spacers and shims etc .
No matter where you go , there you are !

TZepeSH
Posts: 239
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:55 am

Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by TZepeSH » Mon Jul 02, 2018 2:43 am

New parts are in, flywheel, starter motor, another set of rocker block shims (I ordered only one set first...) and some other parts for steering (complete tie rods, steering column bearings and bushings, flip-it-kit for tie rods).
Meanwhile I made the thermostat adapter plate, but I still have to trim it a bit and weld some spots, pics after. Electric drill decided to quit so I could not continue with installing the rocker shaft studs and enlarge the rocker block holes, I will get back at it this week after I buy another one.

TZepeSH
Posts: 239
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:55 am

Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by TZepeSH » Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:14 am

Time for an update. I've been working on several parts for the last month. Starting with the simple parts, I have made a thermostat support by the Cali book and I have finished the oil cooler adapter (in fan housing). I have bought a "swirl pot", so the fuel circuit will be: paper filter -> low pressure fuel pump (Carter) -> swirl pot -> high pressure fuel pump -> FI filter -> fuel rails -> regulator (Honda VFR original) -> back to swirl pot -> back to fuel tank.
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TZepeSH
Posts: 239
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:55 am

Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by TZepeSH » Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:20 am

Next, I have drilled the rocker shaft holders to 9.5mm lower hole and 8.5mm top hole, drilled the rocker shafts to 9mm for 2-3mm depth, cut and installed the "racing" rocker studs, and installed the 0.060" shims. Time for a final check on rocker geometry and cut the pushrods.
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I have received the type4 trigger wheel and sensor from Mario and made a test fit. I have cut the ear on the engine block (the one near breather) and installed the belt tensioner (I do not know who has done the alternator stand, but I like the idea).
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TZepeSH
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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by TZepeSH » Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:31 am

Last, I have done 20mm spacers for air filters, to clear the fuel rail and fan housing. They are actually two 10mm thick aluminum plates, drilled to be fixed on the throttle bodies and on top of them the filters are fixed. In the first picture ignore the hex bolts, they are there just to fix the spacers on the ITBs for a test fit, in the end there will be buried head screws. I got a problem here, I wanted to use the VFR trumpets (velocity stacks), but I have to re-drill the air filter support and spacers to other position of fixing bolts, because now the filter hits the bolts and can not be installed. Another problem is that the velocity stacks do not fit inside the filter. So I have either to dump them, or to trim them a bit to fit inside the filter, what would you do? The VFR stacks come as two taller and two shorter ones, but I ordered a second set so I will have 4 short and 4 tall. I would like to use the taller ones (I have to measure the height and post it).
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Clatter
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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by Clatter » Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:04 pm

FWIW,
I’d cut/trim and/or re-drill as needed to make the stacks work.

Also,
You know that thermostat shown in your pics is a goner, right?
When they expand cold, they are done..
What's that Noise??

Beginners' how-to Type 4 build thread ---> viewtopic.php?f=1&t=145853

TZepeSH
Posts: 239
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:55 am

Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by TZepeSH » Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:57 pm

I know the thermostat is bad, it's there for measurements and alignment.
I'll try first to trim the short stacks and then trim the long ones that I want to use.

TZepeSH
Posts: 239
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:55 am

Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by TZepeSH » Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:17 am

A bit more progress on the engine: I re-shaped the cooling tins so the pulleys align properly and clear the ITBs (no pics). I measured again pushrods, now with the proper 1.5mm shims, and previous measurement is confirmed: 273mm on intakes, 272.2mm on exhaust. Now to cut them!
I kept thinking about what oil pump to use: I have a Schadek with 69,98mm diameter which fits a bit too loose in the engine block, and I have the original pump that I can rebuild (I saw a step-by-step topic, it takes time but it can be done), and it has 70.06mm. But the gear drive is chipped, please see the pictures below. Can I still use the old pump or is it too damaged? I guess just welding and grinding the gear drive back in shape can not be done, I expect it to be a hard steel, hardened. On the Schadek, I think I have to O-ring it, but I am thinking I could also grind some circular grooves around intake and output (With a Dremel) and put some smaller O-rings there.
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Clatter
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Location: Santa Cruz

Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by Clatter » Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:01 pm

There are some options for the oil pump, no doubt;
That said, not all are good options. ;-)


O-rings are popular.

If you do them around the inlet/outlet openings, it will be tricky to get them right.
You must have a -very- steady hand with that Dremel to get them flat/smooth enough to seal.
I wouldn't have a prayer with that one.

The O-rings around the perimeter are no doubt helpful,
But,
Can see oil going around the pump body from outlet to intake.

If you end up rebuilding the T4 pump, I'll send you a couple of mine to do while you're at it. :-)
Plenty of work, no doubt.
Welding up the nick in that drive tang seems to beg it to come loose, eh?


Here's what i'm going to try on my next build, FWIW..
Pull the four studs that fit pump body to case.
Maybe heli-coil the holes..?
Then, as the case is being assembled, the (Schadek) pump can be glued in place as the case goes together;
Using some 518 or RTV or something thick..
That way bolts can be threaded in to hold the pump in vs. studs/nuts.
It's not the best if you end up having to come apart/together a few times,
but it should positively seal the pump body.

I have seen this on a couple motors from bigger SoCal engine houses now,
And it seems to have it's place..?
What's that Noise??

Beginners' how-to Type 4 build thread ---> viewtopic.php?f=1&t=145853

TZepeSH
Posts: 239
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:55 am

Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by TZepeSH » Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:52 pm

That's a neat idea to intall it during case assembly without bolts an put some rtv around. I tried to do something similar on my type1, but it didn't go well because the case was already assembled an I tried to press the pump in with rtv on it. Needless to say, it was all scraped out by the engine block so I took the pump out, cleaned everything and fit it back, loose. Would Loctite 567 be good?

TZepeSH
Posts: 239
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:55 am

Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by TZepeSH » Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:57 pm

No doubt welding the gear drive is not feasible. I wouldn't mind rebuilding the pump, with all work involved, but it looks like a pointless job due to the gear drive...

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