My first type4, probably 2056

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Piledriver
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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by Piledriver » Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:20 pm

The stock 215 will hold a 2056 just fine if in decent shape, even a medium-hot 2270.
The machinist can increase the clamping easily when regrinding by varying the 2 depths, I forget which way..

KEP can rebuild your pressure l plate into a stage 1, 2 or 3 for less than the cost of a new stocker.

Places that can recon flywheels can also source ring gears, fairly common item.
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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by TZepeSH » Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:06 am

That might be easy in the US. I found ring gear, but only in US web storesand the price of shipping and VAT makes it too expensive. There is no store in EU that has ring gear. And the machinist was afraid to cut the ring gear from another flywheel and install it on mine. Maybe I'll ask another machinist.
Same about sending to KEP: too expensive to send back and forth, and I do not have a spare pressure plate. I will just buy a new KEP stage1 pressure plate from CSP, that's around 190E.
The idea is, I trust more the original flywheels than new "conversion" ones. Pricewise, for the cost of machining my 200mm flywheel plus pressure plate and disk, it shall be very close to buying the 215 and pressure plate and disk. If I do not find a ring gear or find a solution to cut and replace within a month, then I'll buy the 215mm and use that one.
To increase the clamping force, a the pressure plate mounting surface shall be machined down a bit. If the disk surface is machined down, the clamping force is lower.

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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by Piledriver » Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:09 am

No one in Europe rebuilds performance clutches?
Surely with all the speciality shops in Europe there must be someone similar to Kennedy Engineering...?
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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by TZepeSH » Tue Mar 28, 2017 5:15 am

What do you mean by rebuilding performance clutches? Flywheel or pressure plate? Of course any can be rebuilt, but it is a matter of cost: sending back and forth the parts makes it easier to buy a new part. 30-40E in one direction is an usual cost; so 60-80E is just the transport. Add the machining cost and it gets close to a new part. This is why I want to rebuild locally the flywheel and not send it to a specialized shop in Germany. On pressure plate, I do not have any spare that could be rebuilt, so I need a new one anyway.

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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by Piledriver » Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:01 pm

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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by TZepeSH » Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:11 am

I live in Romania. I have seen the ring gears on E-bay and on several webshops from the US, but as I said, it gets too expensive in the end. And I do not know if the ring gear will fit, because I do not know how the flywheel was machined, and I do not have such a large caliper to measure accurately the ID of the current ring gear. So I find it easier to buy a used flywheel with removable ring, around 15-20 bucks locally if I find one, or convince a machinist to cut down the ring gear from another flywheel. Or get the 215mm.
Thank you anyway for your feedback, I made my mind on this topic.

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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by Piledriver » Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:16 am

Best of luck then, let us know if we can help in any way, and how it goes.

Note the ring gear on a 914 flywheel can be simply cut back to t1 depth...
Its very wide, its still as wide as stock T1 when cut back.
Its also a forged flywheel.

The pressure plate for those is typically more expensive than a Bus 215.
Its also a bit stronger.
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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by falcor » Wed Mar 29, 2017 4:01 am

You could probably get a used 914 flywheel from Patrik @ www.914er-teile.de for a decent price if you cant find one locally. Just ask for pictured of it before hand so its in ok condition.

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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by TZepeSH » Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:32 am

I have a question on fuel and oil lines. I have decided to put the extra money for AN fittings, and I found two types of hoses: AN6 rubber interior stainless steel braided, or AN6 PTFE stainless steel braided. There is also AN8 that I want to use for oil lines. Are those PTFE hoses the ones to use? I think PTFE shall not be affected by any fuel or oil like rubber is, and shall last much longer without risk of hardening/cracking. The price difference is not big.

As an update for the engine status: still waiting to be line bored, hopefully this week or next week is done. I am preparing now a big order for next parts: NPT plugs, oil pump, gasket set, crankshaft seals, intakes, oil bypass, cylinder shims, endplay shims, Udo Becker or Thorsten Pieper tool steel lifters and bushings, Porsche 8mm swivel feet adjusters.
On the oil pump: I want to order a type1 oil pump, what type shall I choose with WebCam: before '70 or after '70? before '70 I find 26mm or 30mm, after '70 only 30mm heavy duty or 26mm std WBX.

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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by TZepeSH » Sun Jun 25, 2017 3:41 am

I found the answer on oil pump a few pages back: before '70, 26mm.
I will use braided stainless steel rubber hose for oil lines with barbed connectors, and ptfe with AN couplers for gas.

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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by Piledriver » Sun Jun 25, 2017 3:47 am

Be aware you may need to sand a radii on the pump tang end and press the shaft out a little for t4 fitment.
(leave 1mm clearance for cam end play wear, you never, ever want the pump cover to set end play)
A genuine VW pump, even a blueprinted used one, is recommended due to proper fit.

The aftermarket pumps are all loose fitting AFAICT, they leak pressure internally and suck air.
It's supposed to be an interference fit in the case.
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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by TZepeSH » Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:23 am

I have set of Scat Lube-a-lobe type4 lifters, but I consider buying a ser of Udo Becker or Thorsten Pieper tool steel lifters. I am surprised that TP are 54g at 300 euros, but UB are 94g at 300 euros or 60g at more than 500 euros. I wanted Udo's at first, but TP seem much cheaper and better, and only positive feedback. Which ones would you recommend?

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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by TZepeSH » Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:57 am

Good news, I got the engine case, crankshaft and bearing back from line boring. All fits perfectly. I started to make some measurements: endplay without any shims is 0.99mm, so 2x0.3mm and 1x0.32mm shall get me to 0.07mm endplay.
I slided in the lifters and the fit is really good. So if Jakob recommended these Scat Lube-a-Lobe, I will use them. Maybe sometime in the future during a rebuild I will change to tool steel lifters.
Now a question: to install the head studs back, do I use Loctite thread locker or do I just thread them back in? I want to start measuring the deck height to see what shims I need, and then order some more parts.
Today I shall take some pictures as I will install everything back on the crankshaft (gears etc).

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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by Piledriver » Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:48 pm

The head studs aren't likely to spin loose on their own, but at least some of them they can leak oil.

You can use std thread locker, but for best thread sealing and light-medium locking , I like the anaerobic Lockitite tread sealant with Teflon typically used on pipe threads. Like std locktite, Its ridiculously expensive/oz in the tiny tubes auto parts sell, but a big tube, although pricey, will last for the ages. You may never use "plumbers putty" again.
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Re: My first type4, probably 2056

Post by TZepeSH » Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:53 am

I've phoned to more than a dozen shops and I can not find anywhere Loctite thread sealant. The representative from Loctite confirmed that the products are not easily available, and it would take about a month to import them, but he would still not be able to sell them to me directly, but only through other shops. Which will not order it for me due to too low quantity.
The only thing that is available is Loctite 243, medium strength thread locker. Can I use a tiny bit of this on the head studs, where they go in the crankcase? The alternative is to buy Loctite 592 from Amazon, but the price is doubled by shipping... Or I could use Kuril K2, but this is for the case halves, not for threads, I am quite sure it will not work.
Also, can I use this on the cam bolts? I know that Loctite 263 (high strength) would be better, but this is also not available.

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