The Ultimate Type 4 Cam\lifter\related Discussion Thread
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Re: The Ultimate Type 4 Cam\lifter\related Discussion Thread
i figured CB wouldn't risk their name on a set of lifters.
one more question:
What T1 valve train parts are interchangeable with T4's?
I'm thinking specifically of pushrods, valve springs, retainers and keepers.
one more question:
What T1 valve train parts are interchangeable with T4's?
I'm thinking specifically of pushrods, valve springs, retainers and keepers.
- fusername
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Re: The Ultimate Type 4 Cam\lifter\related Discussion Thread
valves springs and retainers are.
give a man a watch and he'll allways know what time it is. give him two and he can never be sure again.
Things are rarely just crazy enough to work, but they're frequently just crazy enough to fail hilariously.
Things are rarely just crazy enough to work, but they're frequently just crazy enough to fail hilariously.
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Re: The Ultimate Type 4 Cam\lifter\related Discussion Thread
keepers and oil pump too?
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Re: The Ultimate Type 4 Cam\lifter\related Discussion Thread
I would put it this way: The keepers are the same as type1. We use the springs, pump and retainers from type1 but the springs are the wrong diameter and the pumps on the marked do not fit the case bore as they should. The do not fit type1 either.
- Piledriver
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Re: The Ultimate Type 4 Cam\lifter\related Discussion Thread
Who is still selling the 356 style setup today?
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
- Type 4 Unleashed
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Re: The Ultimate Type 4 Cam\lifter\related Discussion Thread
Jorge sold the last sets he had, but believe he can get more. And he's had extra sets of bushings that I have been having opened up to take Type 1 lifters...Piledriver wrote:Who is still selling the 356 style setup today?
Their still sold in Europe.
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Re: The Ultimate Type 4 Cam\lifter\related Discussion Thread
Hey guys, long time lurker, 1st time post here so be gentle. Short history for me is I've been in the vw repair trade since the early eighties, had a sabaticle from repairing cars and building aircooled engines since '99, but started getting back into the Volksie scene here in Oz for the last few years. Presently playing with my personal engine, a Fat turn key 2.9 ex offroad race combo. This thing is awesome, and my only problem with it is trying to keep a tranny behind it.
Getting to the point, I have always used European cams in my type IV builds, including one recently, all with no problems. I am presently doing a few std type IV rebuilds among others. Being stock and the first for a client nearly 2hrs drive away, I thought hydrolic would be nice from a maintenance point of view, and stock grind to boot. My supplier had no solid setups available either, and I try to keep cam and lifter packages from one source so I went with the hydrolic. Well, I did initial start up just before Christmas (Merry Christmas everyone, or Happy Holidays or whatever lol) and lifters failed to pump up at all!!!
Some details: lifters were soaked in engine oil for approx a week prior to installation,
engine pressurised with 40w monograde for initial start,
fitted Vanogon style rocker gear and pushrods,
lash set +1 turn from zero.
Any clues on getting these lifters to shut up???
Thanks in advance
Matt
Getting to the point, I have always used European cams in my type IV builds, including one recently, all with no problems. I am presently doing a few std type IV rebuilds among others. Being stock and the first for a client nearly 2hrs drive away, I thought hydrolic would be nice from a maintenance point of view, and stock grind to boot. My supplier had no solid setups available either, and I try to keep cam and lifter packages from one source so I went with the hydrolic. Well, I did initial start up just before Christmas (Merry Christmas everyone, or Happy Holidays or whatever lol) and lifters failed to pump up at all!!!
Some details: lifters were soaked in engine oil for approx a week prior to installation,
engine pressurised with 40w monograde for initial start,
fitted Vanogon style rocker gear and pushrods,
lash set +1 turn from zero.
Any clues on getting these lifters to shut up???
Thanks in advance
Matt
- Piledriver
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Re: The Ultimate Type 4 Cam\lifter\related Discussion Thread
Zero lash them so they have max internal stroke.
Set to ~1/4 turn preload when done.
Read a bit on what has happened to oils, at least many places.
Set to ~1/4 turn preload when done.
Read a bit on what has happened to oils, at least many places.
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
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Re: The Ultimate Type 4 Cam\lifter\related Discussion Thread
Is that zero and up to 1/4 turn, or - 1/4 turn? - 1/4 turn meaning preloading lifter yeah?Piledriver wrote:Zero lash them so they have max internal stroke.
Set to ~1/4 turn preload when done.
Read a bit on what has happened to oils, at least many places.
Cheers for posting.
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Re: The Ultimate Type 4 Cam\lifter\related Discussion Thread
1 turn - 1mm preload. But your oil need to be 10/40 or 15/40. I dont think you can get the lifters to work with 40.
- Piledriver
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Re: The Ultimate Type 4 Cam\lifter\related Discussion Thread
The spec changed from 2 turns of preload to 1/4-3/4 turn after VW finally figured out that 2 turns didn't work.
The less preload you have, the more/faster the lifter can "pump" air out of itself.
You don't want to run zero long, or at high RPM as it will beat up the circlips holding the lifter together.
Some folks have suggested .006 (like solids) for initial run ins.
The primary wear I have ever seen in a ACVW valvetrain is in the adjusting screw tips.
A 15W-40 diesel rated oil will probably work best for you.
(I ran 5W-40 Rotella Synthetic with great results)
The less preload you have, the more/faster the lifter can "pump" air out of itself.
You don't want to run zero long, or at high RPM as it will beat up the circlips holding the lifter together.
Some folks have suggested .006 (like solids) for initial run ins.
The primary wear I have ever seen in a ACVW valvetrain is in the adjusting screw tips.
A 15W-40 diesel rated oil will probably work best for you.
(I ran 5W-40 Rotella Synthetic with great results)
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
- fusername
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- Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:26 am
Re: The Ultimate Type 4 Cam\lifter\related Discussion Thread
I agree w/ pile on that 100% as that is how I was taught at boston engine. initial break in for the first half hour or so you can run 006, then tigthene it up to 1/4 preload
give a man a watch and he'll allways know what time it is. give him two and he can never be sure again.
Things are rarely just crazy enough to work, but they're frequently just crazy enough to fail hilariously.
Things are rarely just crazy enough to work, but they're frequently just crazy enough to fail hilariously.
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- Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:48 pm
Re: The Ultimate Type 4 Cam\lifter\related Discussion Thread
Thanks guys, thats where I was heading, but your help is greatly apreciated. The oil is a diesel run-in oil, and I agree that 30W may have been better, but primarily I felt the issue was in the valve lash adjustment. I will set around .006" for another run as I haven't finished the cam break-in yet, 20+ minutes is a long time at 2500 rpm or more when the valve train is going bananas.
- fusername
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Re: The Ultimate Type 4 Cam\lifter\related Discussion Thread
I wouldn't worry about runing itw/ lash for a while, just a few minutes, then go to the preload from there. if you have one or two noisy lifters back em off and run it a bit and the tighten em back down see if it fixes it.
give a man a watch and he'll allways know what time it is. give him two and he can never be sure again.
Things are rarely just crazy enough to work, but they're frequently just crazy enough to fail hilariously.
Things are rarely just crazy enough to work, but they're frequently just crazy enough to fail hilariously.
- Piledriver
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Re: The Ultimate Type 4 Cam\lifter\related Discussion Thread
The other advantage of near zero lash on a fresh build is the hydraulics can't take up the slack if you are wiping the cam/lifters...
Depressing thought, but true.
Depressing thought, but true.
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.