I have seen quite a bit of interesting stuff lately about using 911 fans in horizontal cooling applications, so I decided to start this thread to make the info easier to find. I am quoting some stuff from other threads first, but everyone else feel free to add to it...
Frallan2 wrote:
The fan and shroud is LA Performance and Lee Arnold has promised me another shroud which is on order in CF.
Piledriver wrote:Didn't a small powered mobile `70s-80s Howitzer get T4s w/horizontal cooling ~just like that? I thought these cooling setups were based on that design...
I recall seeing pics of them dressed in olive drab paint...
Type 4 Unleashed wrote:
Frallan2 wrote:Hi Piledriver,
Howitzer? The canon? Never heard of them running TIV, well in any case that is not VW, is it?
Corvair seems to be the main commercial car with similar type cooling.
I simply like the open layout and looks. With CF shroud it really is stunning.
Cooling capacity works good too without any extra needs of directing fins.
This Horizontal fan conversion was used on a FH (70mm Field Howitzer)-a Type lV propelled cannon used by many NATO army's. This info was provided by a gentleman
from the Netherlands. All I was told by Ahnendorp when I bought this one, that it was made for the Military.
It was made by Riechert Tuning, the head covers are very thin fiberglass, and do not have
the ducting outlets for the heater boxes for heat, like the earlier versions, and OD green is a Military color
Here is a pic of the earlier version, the head covers are 3 to 4 times thicker fiberglass than the Military version, and these have the heating vents, just blocked off.
I picked these up, cause I believe they provide a more even cooling & higher cooling capacity, for one reason, but the most important is they will be easy to modify to accommodate
a much wider motor, anywhere's from .500"-12.7mm to 1.0"-25.4mm per side.
Piledriver wrote:Yes, those pics
I'm still trying to figure out how to get Richard to make some molds off them, I think a cut down Corvair fan would work out ~ perfect in the middle of those, with a ~flat circular plate in the middle, perhaps w/a nice inlet.
Probably could be much lower profile as well, and the air doesn't have to make the 90 degree bend by itself-- the fan does it. (Almost weightless fan at ~9 inch size, thin magnesium, but the alt has to go somewhere else, not under the fan)
IIRC the side bits are separate?
(Thus easy to make wider)
Just a thought---
The Corvair used one (later 2, one each side) bellows assy. very similar to what VW used for the thermostat... GM simply dumped air pressure from the cooling plenum with it when the thermostat(s) were active via a linkage and a hinged door.
Type 4 Unleashed wrote:No problem, I'll just have 2 or 3 Hundred made in C?F...
Yes the head covers are seperate, so yes it would be very easy to make spacers to move the head covers out. All that would be needed is a spacer to match the spacer thickness under the cyl's.
I don't think that there is any other cooling set up that could be so easely modified for a wider motor.
Sorry blitzvw, I believe that this was the very last NOS that Ahnendorp had. And I had the chance to buy 2 from Ahnendorp, but passed on one, but changed my mind and went back but it was gone. I had found it on the German Ebay.
From what I understand Ahnendorp had the military contract to have the military version made, and had Riechert make a large # of them, and mine was one of the ones that was left over.
There are still used setups out there, I found one & Wally had found one, and the timing wasn't that far apart, but the locations were he found his in Europe And I found mine here in the US, and don't let me find any more before you do... ...
NO just kidding, I have what I need, one for a Turbo motor and the other for a really big stroker, which would be about 2.0"-50.8mm wider than stock width motor...
Hey Wally I don't see why it wouldn't work on a Pauter motor...
Frallan2 wrote:As this thread as gone slightly OT I add on what got me going on horizontal fans.
This pic really turned me on. Sorry "owner" I do not remember who you are. UK somewhere I believe.
Typ Vier wrote:Its not too hard to make one yourself...
Pulleys from the local hardware store, double roller bearings, 10mm marine grade aluminium plate, spacer for the pulley, bracket for the pulleys.
Cylinder shrouds will be aluminium with directing veins which helps reducing temps again... I know the date...kids slow every project down...
Last edited by Daniel G on Sun Aug 17, 2008 1:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
Thanks, Daniel, this really does belong in its own thread..
Perhaps we can get Racer Chris to post up some pics of his Corvair fan setup from his SCCA racer?
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
I have been looking at the thread and thought that you might be interested in a few images of how moulds to make shrouds from would look like.I made these moulds under the watchfull eye of colleague that made radio controlled airplanes as a hobby.The moulds are two piece so that the shroud will loosen easily after beeing laminated.
The moulds were taken from a pair of used shrouds.I made one pair of shrouds for a customer of a friend(that was the deal) and fitted them to the engine.I am going to use these ones to make the shroud for my type four(in about 10years or so!)
Greetings,Arnoud
Cool pics! Am I correct to assume that the molds are in two pieces so that they can be removed easier? If you can post any more pics that would be great...
And if anyone else wants to post info in this thread, including Corvair fan shrouds, that would be great. This thread can be the depository for all Horizontal T4 cooling info...
More good info here (I will quote the relevant posts later)...
Is it not possible to run a Horizontal fan using a gear drive? It seems that one could achieve a better drive system than using the corvair method of twisting the belt around the idler pulleys. I am asking more out of curiosity not criticism
There is this very professional Porsche tuner in Sweden (ex ACVW guy) Micke Svens who did his own version on a 911 and if I am not wrong from the pictures I saw he used the gear drive from an outboard boat engine.
But hey, correctly engineered this works well even if it is awkward to bend and twist the belt.
Angled pulleys and right set up should be OK. Maybe higher service level on the belt but that is a low cost.
Today I have "beautified" by pulley bracket with a lot of drilling and cutting.
No pictures until it is chromed and ready but apart from looking better I think I halved its weight.
Nice pics and yes it is not so difficult to build yourself BUT it takes a lot of time.
I built my own 911 carbon fiber fan housing some years ago and it took time.
Sure gives you a good feeling doing it yourself though.
Still have the mould but I guess it will never be used again as it was built for my very own attachment of the fan to the TIV block and Scat Split port heads.
I agree, it takes a little time and sometimes a good friend to give you a hand with the machining of the complicated parts.
However, it could be done in steel and no machining would be needed.
We did the first basic moulds for the horizontal setup in 85 using chicken mesh, paper, fibreglass and then created the proper moulds of this...time consuming.
Looking at your pictures brings back so many memories... Saw you a few times in Giebelstadt at the air strip with the blue beetle.
I remember you beating Roland Juetting in the Sonax beetle which sounded like its misfiring all the way...
M-Owen wrote:Is it not possible to run a Horizontal fan using a gear drive? It seems that one could achieve a better drive system than using the corvair method of twisting the belt around the idler pulleys. I am asking more out of curiosity not criticism
One of the big aircooled Porsche engines actually did use a gear driven setup, but I'll have to see if I can remember which one it was and dig up some pics...
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
Porsche 917 12 cylinder 180 degree V12 used it. Power taken from the middle of the crankshaft if I remember right.
Andreas Typ Vier, the car was mine at the time and today it is Udos.
I drove the car in Giebelstadt, I think that was the name...and Mats Herrlander was the guy that borrowed the car with his engine and kicked Roland Juttings supercharged funny beetle. ("Worlds fastest bug" according to an german article I have form the time)
Thanks for the new pics...Those are pretty cool! So, did you just weld some chunks of aluminum to the sides of a stock fan ring to mount it from, or is the fan ring custom as well? And what model of Porsche did the fan come from?
Here are those relevant posts from the thread I posted earlier...
Wally wrote:Painted the Riechert shroud orange again (it was black). I also bought an up-pipe from a subaru and a new stainless 3" muffler from Borla:
At the moment the 914 2 liter stock engine will be used to fit everything and so I can drive a little sooner. Good thing I test fitted the EFI parts as I needed to mod some parts...
The larger riechert pulley has gotten an even larger toothed ring (never thought it needed to pass the ds-pump
So the pump cover was clearenced:
This is the status at the moment:
quote="Wally"]Thanks.
I got the 2 liter running today! It started in one try!
Needs some remapping, but that should be no problem.
Glad the whole cooling thing and EFI conversion worked out so well. Its n/a for now, but when it runs well, it will be converted with the turbo stuff
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Wally wrote:Thanks, and I have started with turbo'ing now
Test fitting intercooler and some of the ducts (plenty more to follow)
Wally wrote:Yes, I figured when it comes to intake temperatures and turbos, thats exactly right Eugene
It started in one try!
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