twin plug discussions....

[bj]

100 euro option ain't bad at all if you can afford the 3000 euro or so price tag!! PLUS shipping

still, would be very cool to run. more power, less timing, fuel economy, cooler running...etc...PLUS the cool factor is way up there ....

bj

[Wally]

100 euro option ain't bad at all if you can afford the 3000 euro or so price tag!! PLUS shipping

Like I said, twin spark costs a lot of money, even if its made in the stock head casting. What do you think what a set of twin spark heads from Len Hofman costs? I'll answer that for you: its probably not far off from a set of EP heads if you live on this side of the pond.

The whole 'costs' versus hp-bonus is a downer on most of these discussions. Better to discuss the technical side of things, thats much more interesting imo

[bj]

very true. the twin plug option from len approaches the neighborhood of 1k for JUST the twin plug.

the heads i got done from EMW was close to 1K as well (they don't do twin plugs either).

maybe one day when i hit the lottery or decide that i don't need that pesky second kidney i may get the twin plugs.

how important do you think the position of the plugs are in the chamber? i realize that there are probably more efficient locations than others...but there has to be a breaking point where you can still get the majority of the benefits with just a "stick in there" position.

[ALB]

bj-
Do you read the forum at Raby's Aircooled Technology? Jake has a great twin plug thread right now (Air cooled Technology forums> The engine shop-The Dyno Shop-Twin Plug Discussion).

[quote}The how important do you think the position of the plugs are in the chamber? i realize that there are probably more efficient locations than others...but there has to be a breaking point where you can still get the majority of the benefits with just a "stick in there" position.[quote]

Why not ask him?

[Piledriver]

Does anyone have a pic of the backside of some twinplug T4 heads as a sanity check?

Resurrecting an oldie but goodiy, note that European motor Works will twinplug a pair of T4 heads for $400, today.

I need a bulletproof way to put a plug, there, now, without potenially spending thousands doing multiple sets of heads, as I have a weird little side project in work that puts Bosch GDi injectors in the stock plug hole for what I hope are obvious reasons.

Thanks to Type4unleashed for his wisdom and help.(and plug part#)

EMW et al apparently use a 10mm solid plug insert from Timesert and the corresponding cutter kit.

It does look as if minor welding would be very helpful, probably not "must remove seats" level, just to have something for the Timesert to seat on and provide cooling.

The reason for doing 1.7l head first is the plan is to do a MS2 controlled GDi turbo 103x66 with some qsc nickasils I sniped on ebay (they are indeed 103mm, all the same length and round where the rings go...) and to try using the head as the cylinder spacer as I have ranted about for years.

IIRC the Nickies V2 eventually tried a similar design, i never heard feedback about how well the extra ~4mm of meat in the deck helped.

I am currently molesting a ~scrap 1.7L head to sort out the angles, and plan to make permanant jigs, possibly allowing it to be done with hand tools, as the jig will (hopefully) guide the cutters.

I already bought a set of the required Denso IU20 plugs off Ebay for $38.50 shipped.

[dawie]

Interesting...

Seeing that you are going GDI, do you plan to have your 10mm plug at the top, next to existing plug, like in aviation applications? Or on opposite side, at the bottom?

[Piledriver]

The current plan is to put the injector next to the factory plug, over the exhaust valve, aimed at the second plug in the "better" location other side of the chamber, conveniently one short skip across the exhaust valve.
That should work well in many ways...

[Bills914-4]

Pile what kind of pic's are you looking for ? I posted a few of my twin plug heads ( Jorge @ EMW did the plug mod ) in the Ignition forum ( 2nd page megajolt thread ) if that doesn't help I'll see what other pic's I have that might help ? Bill D.

[Piledriver]

Thanks, that's exactly what I needed!

http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic ... 6&start=16

I remembered someone had it done recently, I just couldn't remember who/where the pics were.
For some reason the thread didn't come up in twin plug searches, or I missed it..

If you rattle the MS devs I'm pretty sure the twin plug stagger could easily be in MS3-1.4, I cannot ask further as dual plugs are still in the form of a jig I'm making.

[bj]

Maybe a silly question...but how do you change the plugs on the bottom? Pull the pr tubes? Or is there enough room to get a socket/ratchet in there?

I have a set of EMWs 103mm cylinders...sitting...waiting...hmmmm

BJ

[Piledriver]

Maybe a silly question...but how do you change the plugs on the bottom? Pull the pr tubes? Or is there enough room to get a socket/ratchet in there?

I have a set of EMWs 103mm cylinders...sitting...waiting...hmmmm

BJ

Iridium plugs last for ages, so it shouldn't be too much bother.

[Steve Arndt]

My heads have a lot of welding on the bottom for the sixth studding. I'm not sure if I will have room for the dual plugs.

They are 1.7 914 heads, 48x40, welded ports, six studs per cylinder, posted exhaust/bore support, 7mm guides and valves, etc.

[Piledriver]

I don't think there would be an issue looking at the pics, the plugs point toward the ~center of the rocker box.
(at the midline of the bore centers)

You can see where the cutter setup (or clearance for it ) kissed the casting on one side on WLD419s pics

I see you went with the tubular inserts on the backside, I'm considering that in addition to the step cut and maybe welding at the 5th/6th stud locations for max deck rigidity.

I see little welding on the intake ports, how'd you do 48s?
(perhaps a missing picture)

I want to see how much power 39x33 valves and ~stock intake ports will support, cheap experiment.

[bj]

Pile,

But would you still have to remove the tubes?

BJ

[bj]

Steve,

I'll bet someone would buy those heads if you wanted to start fresh.

BJ