Project---Split cable pull linkage

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Re: Project---Split cable pull linkage

Post by fusername » Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:36 am

I always used braided cable from my local ACE for throttle cable as the stuff that comes from VW shops is junky, but I think there is merit to a high quality single strand, seems to me that I have al ot of friction in the guide tubes due to the twisted wire vs single. always fighting sticky throttles despite things being clean and greased. Of course I am not using these fantastic pullys just yet, so maybe all my problems would go away if I took the time to set em up lol
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Re: Project---Split cable pull linkage

Post by Manny » Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:41 am

once you work with 7x19 you'll feel different.

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Re: Project---Split cable pull linkage

Post by Devastator » Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:52 am

I prefer cables from local bike shops. Strong and affordable.
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Re: Project---Split cable pull linkage

Post by Piledriver » Thu Jun 26, 2014 12:59 pm

Bumping this back up, note there are certain ripoff artists out there selling very close copies of Slowtwitches SyncLink (TM) that you can watch being developed in this thread.

If you are looking for a killer linkage for dual carbs, this is the original and still unequalled.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/ ... id=1381017
Last edited by Piledriver on Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Project---Split cable pull linkage

Post by Steve Arndt » Thu Jun 26, 2014 1:05 pm

By copy do you mean tangerine racing?
We have a 914 in the shop with what looks like his linkage kit on it. Not too impressed with its fit and finish but it does move smooth and evenly.

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Re: Project---Split cable pull linkage

Post by Piledriver » Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:20 pm

Steve Arndt wrote:By copy do you mean tangerine racing?
We have a 914 in the shop with what looks like his linkage kit on it. Not too impressed with its fit and finish but it does move smooth and evenly.

I have no doubt it works well, it's a great basic design, and Chris is an excellent fabricator.
I just have issues with the ethics of it's continued existence as a retail item.

It's one thing to roll your own (for your own uses) from an existing design, even if patented.
It's another to sell them at retail, when you could probably resell the real thing and make ~the same $.

No one is getting rich making them anyway, as they do not fit a Camaro.

But when someone of Chris's stature/visibility does it, it's the ~equivalent of EMPI having 10K of them made in china.
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Re: Project---Split cable pull linkage

Post by Steve Arndt » Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:50 pm

If the car is still at our shop tonight I will take pic. It is the essence of crude looking, so either it Chris ver 0.1.3, or somebody copied the copy.

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Re: Project---Split cable pull linkage

Post by Steve Arndt » Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:09 pm

Names redacted to protect the innocent. The cable brackets/bases at the carbs look to be cut from 2x2 angle stock. Very basic made from 10 bucks worth of stock and bike cables it appears (besides the pulley wheels).

When I put my head in the engine compartment I was glad once again that it has been 10 years since I ran carbs on a driver. They stink. Open float bowls constantly evaporating fuel...

EDIT: This is NOT my car or my work. Just sharing some pics from a car we are working on...
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Re: Project---Split cable pull linkage

Post by Piledriver » Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:02 pm

That looks like a definite DIY effort, the brackets are more solid than my efforts.
Not a copy of anything, there is no foul.

The cable splitter looks very iffy, but the pulleys/outer brackets are quite nice.
If it works, it works.

Works is the only objective, and I'm reasonably sure that works as well as a Hexbar.

One of the primary parts of a Synclink is that one pulley has two grooves and it does not require the splitter.
Also has nice sheathed cable and adjusters, the unsheathed cable rigs adjustment will change with engine temp changes. The sheathed cables with slack prevents that.
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Re: Project---Split cable pull linkage

Post by aircooledtechguy » Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:43 pm

You all realize that if you change a patented piece by as little as 15%, you are not breaking ANY patent laws. . . Don't believe me; look it up. Not trying to start any crap on this or any site, just stating briefly what the law says and allows. The Tangerine system may be similar, but it's NOT a direct copy of the Sync Link which is what patent laws protect.

I understand that some may not take kindly to what the law allows. If you don't like how the patent laws are written, then work to get them changed to the way you think it should be applied. Some may think some folks are being underhanded in offering a similar product. Well, let your $$$ do the talking and buy from whom you want to, but lets not lower ourselves to public name-calling. It makes everyone look bad.

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Re: Project---Split cable pull linkage

Post by Piledriver » Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:26 pm

There is a difference what is legal and what is ethical.

IMHO knocking off what is essentially a marginally profitable hobby for someone
(and continuing to do so even after it finally could be produced without every one being literally 100% hand made)
was a scumbag move, regardless of its legality.

I'm sure Chris would get rather irate if someone else started making perfect copies of his header in SS with brazed slipjoints (so it will not crack) for half what he charges for mild steel...

And there is absolutely no legal reason anyone can't as long as they called it something different.

His header was surpassed performance wise by the A1 header (at ~1/2 the price) years ago, so the only logical reason anyone buys a Tangerine header is because it looks cool. (and it does, it's functional art)

The only reason I said anything was a glowing review of the knockoff product posted in these forums, with absolutely no mention of the provenance of the design. I bumped this back up as an historical reminder, and so as not to pollute another excellent and really unrelated thread with this sort of thing.

Chris makes some neat stuff, and I long ago picked up a unused second hand Phase9 can and muffler from one of his systems, but now that's as close to ever being one of his customers as I will ever be.
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Re: Project---Split cable pull linkage

Post by aircooledtechguy » Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:36 pm

Piledriver wrote:There is a difference what is legal and what is ethical.

IMHO knocking off what is essentially a marginally profitable hobby for someone
(and continuing to do so even after it finally could be produced without every one being literally 100% hand made) was a scumbag move, regardless of its legality.
So, when a market for a product is identified and the first to market can't supply the demand for said product, you're saying that someone else can't/shouldn't make a financial risk and develop their own version of that product to fill demand???? And using your same logic, if the original product later can fill all demand, you're saying that anyone who has taken a financial risk by developing their own version of a product and tooling up for production should just abandon the venture???????? No offense Pile, but what parallel universe does this type of thing happen??? You won't find that happening in any free-market system in the world and not here in the USA.
Piledriver wrote: I'm sure Chris would get rather irate if someone else started making perfect copies of his header in SS with brazed slipjoints (so it will not crack) for half what he charges for mild steel...

And there is absolutely no legal reason anyone can't as long as they called it something different.

His header was surpassed performance wise by the A1 header (at ~1/2 the price) years ago, so the only reason anyone buys a Tangerine header is because it looks cool. (and it does, it's functional art)
If someone wants to make the financial commitment and risk required to make what they feel is a superior product, I can guaranty you that ANY business who makes a similar high quality product will welcome the competition and bring their A-game. Markets are NEVER static; they always change and what was a boom today will be tomorrows bust. This is what drives quality up and prices down. Competition is good for everyone in the end. Business of any kind is a risk; there are never any guaranties. I've personally been put out of a segment of business by way of Chinese knock-offs flooding the market for less than my cost of materials. Did I sit in the corner and cry "foul"?? Well a little at first, but what can you do?? Have a pity-party and blame the world?? Yeah, that'll fix it. :roll: No, I rolled-up my sleeves and took my venture another direction and did just fine.

Vote with your $$$ for the products and companies that you like and quit complaining. The best products and values will win out in the end.

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Re: Project---Split cable pull linkage

Post by Piledriver » Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:03 am

If you are fine with a ripoff artists ethics, I'm fine with that.

Nothing is stopping anyone from making folks aware of who they choose to buy their products from.
CFRs D-Jet pressure sensor diaphragm kit is the only game in town, he deserves kudos for bringing that to market.

Chris already lost a decent chunk of his sales (via losing all sales through RAT) largely due to this issue.
(his making a $1500 hand hammered fan shroud was likely not the reason as it only makes sense for racers who must meet SCCA racing rules requiring 914s to have the stock alternator location, also he ran it for years...)

I hope his entirely legal (but almost certainly tiny) profits on the linkage make up for his lost sales.

NOTE HE DOESN"T EVEN SHOW AN ASSEMBLED LINKAGE IN HIS AD, as it would be too obvious.

You keep bumping this up.
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Re: Project---Split cable pull linkage

Post by RHough » Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:15 pm

The CB Hexbar is included with the IDF's I've ordered for my Ghia.

The add says:
SyncLink Throttle System
I have a few sets available for IDF and DRLA type setups.
The kit comes in a semi-polished finish. Currently, this system is only for shrouds without heat and heat ducts (I'm working on that one)
What options are available to me for a 1972 Ghia with a standard shroud and heater hoses?

Even with no experience I don't like the engineering of an unsupported bar pulled from the middle. Something *has* to flex.

I've been looking at the center-pull linkages from Vintage Speed http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Vintage-Sp ... -02idf.htm

And the one from CSP (the one Vintage Speed copied?) http://www.cip1.ca/ProductDetails.asp?P ... 29-941-110

From my past life as a wrench on motorcycles I'm no fan of systems that rely on cables for carb sync (although the SyncLink application looks pretty good).

So, should I try the CB Hexbar first? Go with a CSP from the start? Wait for a upright shroud w/heater tube version of the SyncLink?

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Re: Project---Split cable pull linkage

Post by Steve Arndt » Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:21 pm

CSPcenter pull works great with IDFs. Not so great with my throttle bodies because the shafts are up about 2 inches higher making the rods run at large angles.

Pete Sync Link does now work with heaters. He has a new version in proto form just for heater shrouds. Check the thread at Samba.

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